Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Best All-Around Fighter of World War II
sentinel28a    10/13/2009 3:38:03 PM
Let's try a non-controversial topic, shall we? (Heh heh.) I'll submit the P-51 for consideration. BW and FS, if you come on here and say that the Rafale was the best fighter of WWII, I am going to fly over to France and personally beat you senseless with Obama's ego. (However, feel free to talk about the D.520.)
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
45-Shooter       1/25/2013 9:01:51 PM


The source is Bader's own Auto-bigraphy! In his own words! This was by the way, NOT during the BoB, but in the cross channel missions time just before he was shot down by what was most likely "Friendly Fire".
 


Well either other sources are wrong or you are, so we go with the susual and assume you are, the Spit Bader is flying at the time of the accident (a Mk1 with two speed prop) was not a BoB aircraft as all BoB spits had been converted to Constant speed units (either  Rotol or deHavalind) also I have heard that Bader had not completed the conversion course to Spits at the time so comparisons are invalid, (his previous experiance was on fixed prop aircraft including earlier flights in Spits and Hurricanes)

 


So by your own arguments I could claim (silly I know) that the spit was easier as it had a fixed prop, this is why you need to be more accurate

 

 

As a second point, he was able to fly 62 sorties in 137 days. He describes how he had a relentless "Rage" against the Germans and was so desperate to "Get at them" that he was repremanded and finnally "Let off his leash" by his superiors to avoid making waves with the "Hero of the BoB"! While all of the above is interesting, the only realivant point is that a Wing Cdr could only manage one mission every 2.2 days over a period of 4-1/2 months!

 

Are we still taking BoB here? as Bader was NOT a hero of the BoB in fact he saw very little action beging stationed in 12 Group and being a big supporter of the flawed "Big Wing" of Mallory's 

Just making quotes.
Your idea about the Spit being easy to fly is not a solid one. All you have to do is either take a flying lesson in a old plane, or read any of the various "How to" books published at the time. I have done both and old planes are not easy to fly, unless they are of such low performance that they are incappable of both speed and climb much more than 3-5,000' ASL. Mixture control was a serrious bug-a-boo, that is why it was semi-automated in later Spits, as several here have pointed out. The thing with Mixture Control is if it is off by more than some small fraction, either the plugs foul, or it burns a hole in one or more pistons. Either result can have a disasterous end. Prop pitch is the other big Gremlin, as the above quotes show.

 
 
Quote    Reply

Belisarius1234    Quit the BS.   1/26/2013 5:40:33 PM
You've been caught and identified, Stuart.
 
B.
 
 
Quote    Reply

45-Shooter       1/27/2013 2:11:21 PM

You've been caught and identified, Stuart. B.

At what?

Putting a label on me WO justification seems just a little childish by the way. Why don't you answer the questions above?
I wish that I was as skilled as you in the way you manipulate things. Taking the ideas from TWO sentances, which by the way is the very definition of the word "Sentance" "to have expressed one idea" and then making the leap of reason to conclude they were tied to gether as a single idea is...
PS. My name is Stewart. Please try to get it right so that others will not get the wrong idea about MY ideas.
 
 
Quote    Reply

Belisarius1234    I AM justified.   1/27/2013 3:07:14 PM
The evidence is in, and the JURY found the verdict.
 
You are identified, and analyzed ACCURATELY.
 
And unlike your ad hominems and other bilge, this does go to aircraft, because YOU DON'T KNOW what you pretend to to discuss. I proved it.  
 
B.
 
 
Quote    Reply

oldbutnotwise       1/28/2013 10:00:02 AM
Your idea about the Spit being easy to fly is not a solid one. All you have to do is either take a flying lesson in a old plane, or read any of the various "How to" books published at the time. I have done both and old planes are not easy to fly,
discounted as no proof supplied as to any expericance in "old" aircraft either STFU about your peronal history or provide proof 
 
unless they are of such low performance that they are incappable of both speed and climb much more than 3-5,000' ASL. Mixture control was a serrious bug-a-boo, that is why it was semi-automated in later Spits,
 
as opposed to a two position lever in the earlier ones (that were linked to the throtle to pevent bad operation) and were only used for slowspeed fuel saving flight
 
 as several here have pointed out. The thing with Mixture Control is if it is off by more than some small fraction,
 
explain how a two position lever can be out by a small fraction ?
 
either the plugs foul, or it burns a hole in one or more pistons. Either result can have a disasterous end. Prop pitch is the other big Gremlin, as the above quotes show.
 
so the early spits with woodern props where fine, and later ones with constant speed ones were alos fine so we are talking about Spits between 1939 and early 1940 so pretty much phony war and Dunkirk!
 
 
Quote    Reply

45-Shooter       1/28/2013 4:12:01 PM


Your idea about the Spit being easy to fly is not a solid one. All you have to do is either take a flying lesson in a old plane, or read any of the various "How to" books published at the time. I have done both and old planes are not easy to fly,


discounted as no proof supplied as to any expericance in "old" aircraft either STFU about your peronal history or provide proof 

 

unless they are of such low performance that they are incappable of both speed and climb much more than 3-5,000' ASL. Mixture control was a serrious bug-a-boo, that is why it was semi-automated in later Spits,

 


as opposed to a two position lever in the earlier ones (that were linked to the throtle to pevent bad operation) and were only used for slowspeed fuel saving flight

 

 as several here have pointed out. The thing with Mixture Control is if it is off by more than some small fraction,

 


explain how a two position lever can be out by a small fraction ?

 

either the plugs foul, or it burns a hole in one or more pistons. Either result can have a disasterous end. Prop pitch is the other big Gremlin, as the above quotes show.

 

so the early spits with woodern props where fine, and later ones with constant speed ones were alos fine so we are talking about Spits between 1939 and early 1940 so pretty much phony war and Dunkirk!

 

I would counter this with pages 97-102 talking about the dozen or so DIFFERENT props tested for Spits from Castle Bromwitch in the book Spitfire, the history. Speed varied from 352 to over 376 MPH! Widely touted as the best book on the spit ever, buy several on this board, which is why I bought it. Neet.
 
Quote    Reply

Reactive       1/28/2013 4:26:33 PM
Look can we get this thread back on track and make it relevant to our debating champion, I for one, I don't think that the USS Enterprise was any match for the death star even if the former had better instantaneous turn capability.
 
Furthermore, I think the death star fulfilled its main mission objectives but the engineers simply wouldn't listen to reason when I told them (this was a long time ago) that it's a bad idea to leave several bloody huge exhaust ports to the central reactor core!- the installation of simple wire-netting or a U-bend would have been enough, and for want of a few thousand dollars we lost several quadrillion - twice!
 
R 
 
Quote    Reply

oldbutnotwise       1/28/2013 5:05:21 PM

I would counter this with pages 97-102 talking about the dozen or so DIFFERENT props tested for Spits from Castle Bromwitch in the book Spitfire, the history. Speed varied from 352 to over 376 MPH! Widely touted as the best book on the spit ever, buy several on this board, which is why I bought it. Neet.
 
are you that clueless? we are talking the hub not the prop profile, the spit had 4 different hubs (upto 42 afterwhich i dont know)  that was the fixed, the two speed DH, the rotol constant and the DH Constant which takes well past the BoB and the thread
 
ps if you refer to a book page its nice if you mention the book as thier are 100s of spitfire books
 
Quote    Reply

oldbutnotwise       1/29/2013 7:27:17 AM
I would counter this with pages 97-102 talking about the dozen or so DIFFERENT props tested for Spits from Castle Bromwitch (Bromwich?) in the book Spitfire, the history. Speed varied from 352 to over 376 MPH! Widely touted as the best book on the spit ever, buy (by?) several on this board, which is why I bought it. Neet (neat?).
 
try reading it then and you may understand your errors
 
Quote    Reply

45-Shooter       1/30/2013 8:12:05 PM




I would counter this with pages 97-102 talking about the dozen or so DIFFERENT props tested for Spits from Castle Bromwitch in the book Spitfire, the history. Speed varied from 352 to over 376 MPH! Widely touted as the best book on the spit ever, buy several on this board, which is why I bought it. Neet.

 


are you that clueless? we are talking the hub not the prop profile, the spit had 4 different hubs (upto 42 afterwhich i dont know)  that was the fixed, the two speed DH, the rotol constant and the DH Constant which takes well past the BoB and the thread

 


ps if you refer to a book page its nice if you mention the book as thier are 100s of spitfire books

See the mostly yellow highlite above for the title, which was previously mentioned many times by me.
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News 		  Most
 Read 		  Most
 Commented		  Hot
 Topics