The argument was that any austere base would be a logistical burden on the marines.

I was simply pointing out that in order to have HELOs operate from a FOB, you need some of the same assets, the same fuel ( JP-4 or JP-5), and  weapons stores.

 

 

I know STOVL jets are not helos, but if your goona bring helos into the desert, then you may as well bring the birds also. 

 

I notice he neglects to mention that they never did that again in Iraq because the FOB got rocketed by the Iraqis and the risk was deemed too high.

 

Spin this article any way you want, the simple reality is that the only reason they did this is that Harriers have such short legs.  If they had been F/A-18s instead of Harriers they would not have needed the FOBs in the first place. They would have had the payload and the range to support the same number of strikes without having to go through these dangerous and expensive exercises.

 

In real life, those two exercises were simply a substitute for aerial refueling.  Except they cost more and were vastly more dangerous due to the need to carry the fuel (and ordnance in the case of Dwyer) over land, and you put the aircraft at much higher risk due to having to land at a semi prepared site, exposing it to ground fire, shelling, and the inherent risks of STOVL landing and takeoffs.

 

The whole idea is stupid, and the fact that these are the only examples they can trot out to justify it shows just how pointless the capability really is.

So let me get this straight! You would run your helos back and forth 400 miles to the ship, and back?

If you didn't already need JP5 in a desert, at an austere base than maybe I could understand your logic.

But as things stand your goona need these forward aviation assets any way.  The 101 airborn had over 250 military airlift helos

during the GWII. Do you think all those birds would fly all the way back to kuwait to refuel?

This is the Army but Im giving an example.

Also Ill add sortie generation rate can be just as important as payload and range. Having Your refueling base 400 miles away means a tanker for a heavy loaded F-18. The F-35B has the fuel load of the F-18 ( which was better than the Av-8 to begin with) and the versatility of the harrier.

 

Av-8

• Maximum speed: Mach 0.89 (662 mph, 1,070 km/h) at sea level
• Range: 1,200 nm (1,400 mi, 2,200 km)
• Combat radius: 300 nmi (556 km)
• Ferry range: 1,800 nmi (3,300 km)
• Rate of climb: 14,700 ft/min (4,485 m/min)
• Wing loading: 94.29 lb/ft² (460.4 kg/m²)

 

I was not talking about helicopters.  The logistics requirements for helicopters are, obviously, completely different.  It is utterly impractical to conduct sustained STOVL jet operations in unprepared areas.  The only time it is ever used is as a stopgap to extend the range of already short-legged Harriers.  A conventional fighter with air to air refueling is better in every measure.

 

Also Ill add sortie generation rate can be just as important as payload and range. Having Your refueling base 400 miles away means a tanker for a heavy loaded F-18. The F-35B has the fuel load of the F-18 ( which was better than the Av-8 to begin with) and the versatility of the harrier.

 

Sortie generation rate is only good if the payload is useful and the range is useful.

 

Re: your range figures, you are comparing the two aircraft flying from conventional runways.  The AV-8B's CAS combat radius drops to 90 miles when operating STOVL.  It is a titanic waste of fuel since it spends so much of its flight time landing and taking off.

 

For the U.S. military, STOVL is a solution in search of a problem.  It results in less-capable, more expensive, harder to maintain, and far more unsafe aircraft, whose "unique capabilities" are only useful to make up for shortcomings that are caused by being STOVL in the first place.

Tankers are potentially vulnerable to interceptors, aren't they?

Which is why you protect them with your own fighters and keep them far away enough from the front line that they're not in harm's way but still close enough to be useful. 

And "COOOL!!!!" belongs to action movies and anime, not to real world military operations :-P