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Subject: For Smitty237
gf0012-aust    4/27/2011 6:08:57 AM
to follow
 
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gf0012-aust       4/27/2011 6:11:42 AM
the prev banter re Mil-24's got my research bug activated so I've been trying to find old notes and docs re the early Mil-24 aggressors

a different history chrono first:

[2.0] Hind In Foreign Service / Hind Upgrades / 

v1.1.4 / chapter 2 of 2 / 01 may 10 / greg goebel / public domain

* The Hind was exported to many foreign states and fought in many conflicts. Many Hinds remain in service with both foreign states and the various Soviet successor states, and a number of firms are providing upgrades to keep the machines effective. In the last days of the Soviet Union, the Mil organization tried to develop a new attack helicopter, the Mi-28 Havoc, that incorporated the lessons learned from the Hind. This chapter provides an outline of the Hind's use in foreign service and Soviet successor states, and also gives a description of the Mi-28.

http://www.vectorsite.net/avhind_2_1.jpg" alt="Czech Mil Mi-24V Hind-E" style="cursor: auto; " />

 


[2.1] FOREIGN SERVICE: MI-25 HIND-D / MI-35 HIND-E / MI-35P HIND-F
[2.2] HIND UPGRADES
[2.3] MI-28 HAVOC
[2.4] COMMENTS, SOURCES, & REVISION HISTORY

 

[2.1] FOREIGN SERVICE: MI-25 HIND-D / MI-35 HIND-E / MI-35P HIND-F

* The Hind-series gunships have been widely exported in specific export variants, with slightly downgraded avionics. The "Mi-25" is an export version of the Hind-D, while the "Mi-35" is similarly an export version of the Hind-E, and the "Mi-35P" is an export version of the Hind-F.

The Iraqis were early foreign operators of the Hind, obtaining them beginning in the late 1970s. It is unclear how many Hinds were purchased by Iraq, but the number was apparently about 60. Iraqi Hinds saw particularly heavy action during the Iran-Iraq War of 1980:1988. The gunships were used extensively for ground attack on Iranian troops, inflicting great slaughter and acquiring a fearsome reputation. They were also the first helicopters to engage in serious air-to-air combat with other helicopters, in the form of Iranian AH-1J SeaCobra gunships.

The Hind had been more or less inspired by the American Bell Cobra and Hind crews regarded the Cobra as their natural enemy. Although the Hind was faster and tougher, the Cobra was more agile. Soviet evaluations had demonstrated that in a contest between two helicopters the one that could turn more tightly was likely to win.

According to a story, the Cobra's advantage in maneuverability over the Hind had been demonstrated in the early 1980s. A Soviet Hind based in East Germany was flying along the border with West Germany, playing "cat" to a US Army Cobra flying on the other side of the border in the role of "mouse". The Cobra pilot was a "real pro", and the Hind pilot lost control trying to follow his maneuvers. The Soviet gunship went into the ground, killing its crew. This "kill" could be chalked up more to the Soviet pilot's fatal lack of judgement than to the American pilot's skill, and in fact the Iraqis demonstrated that the contest between Hind and Cobra was far from one-sided.

It might not have seemed so at first. In November 1980, not long after the beginning of the war with Iraq's invasion of Iran on 22 September 1980, two Iranian SeaCobras crept up on two Hinds and hit them with TOW wire-guided antitank missiles. One Hind went down immediately, the other was badly damaged and crashed before reaching base. The Iranians pulled off a repeat performance on 24 April 1981, destroying two Hinds without loss to themselves.

Then the Iraqis hit back, claiming the destruction of a SeaCobra on 14 September 1983; three SeaCobras on 5 February 1984; and three more on 25 February 1984. Things went quiet for a time, and then on 13 February 1986 each side lost a gunship. A few days later, on 16 February, a Hind shot down a SeaCobra, with a SeaCobra claiming a Hind in return on 18 February. The last engagement between the two types was on 22 May 1986, when the Hinds shot down a SeaCobra.

The score in the end was 10 kills on SeaCobras and 6 kills on Hinds. The relatively small numbers and the inevitable disputes over actual kill numbers makes it unclear if one gunship had a real technical superiority over the other. It appears that the outcome of the fights was dependent more on the tactical situation and pilot skill than the inherent merits of each machine. Iraqi Hinds also claimed a total of 43 kills against other Iranian helic

 
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gf0012-aust       4/27/2011 6:20:45 AM
I used to have some photos of the mickey up S61's that were contracted as Hind emulators but can't find them.  They were butt ugly though as they had some horrible panel mods

I do have an image of an NSAWC  SH-60F Blackhawk complete with opfor gucci paint job that is being used (more reliable and fitted with the e-gear to emulate) 

 http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5230/5660959004_073d9a5dbb_m.jpg" alt="NSAWC SH60F Hind emulator" />
 
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gf0012-aust       4/27/2011 7:01:45 AM
Hind aggressor

http://www.guncopter.com/images/gallery/mi-24-aggressor.jpg" alt="MI-24 HIND" /> 
 
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gf0012-aust       4/27/2011 7:05:32 AM
they used to have Hueys done up as Hinds as well, complete with nose wart and "broom sticks" to emulate the chin turret.

blue team died from laughter most of the time 
 
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doggtag       4/27/2011 7:31:30 AM

they used to have Hueys done up as Hinds as well, complete with nose wart and "broom sticks" to emulate the chin turret.




blue team died from laughter most of the time 

Couldn't be any worse than that one Rambo movie where they dressed up, what was it, a Puma or Sea King (looking more like a Hind-A with the single barrel 12.7mm up front, not the 4-barrel in the chin turret)...?
Maybe I've got my movies confused, but whether it was that one or another,
there was one that used the single-engined USCG-style Pelican all "Hind'ed" up,
a poor man's gunship in the days before CGI could do it cheaper. http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmilep.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
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gf0012-aust       4/27/2011 7:47:37 AM

Couldn't be any worse than that one Rambo movie where they dressed up, what was it, a Puma or Sea King (looking more like a Hind-A with the single barrel 12.7mm up front, not the 4-barrel in the chin turret)...?

Maybe I've got my movies confused, but whether it was that one or another,

there was one that used the single-engined USCG-style Pelican all "Hind'ed" up,

a poor man's gunship in the days before CGI could do it cheaper. http://www.strategypage.com/Images/emsmilep.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />


pretty sure it was a Puma, and you're right, damn fugly :)

 
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smitty237    Don't Forget Red Skorpion   4/27/2011 7:03:11 PM
This was one of the sites I came across in my research, and it's a good one.  There are quite a few sites out there about the Hind, and I've yet to find one that says anything critical about the Hind, other than it's a less than ideal troop carrier (maybe Santa Claws knows of a few).  If I were a tin pot dictator I would much rather equip my military with Apaches and/or Blackhawks, but if money were tight the Hind would more than do as a gunship.  Thanks for the tip though.  Scholarship is good for the mind.  After this last few days I know a lot more about the Hind than I did before.
 
Since you guys were discussing the Hind in the movies I wanted to remind you of the late 80's Dolph Lundren movie Red Skorpion, where Dolph plays a Spetnaz trooper that sides with an African guerilla group against his own country.  The "Hind" is featured in that movie as well, and like Rambo I believe it featured a Puma disguised as Hind.  The best line of that movie is a scene where Dolph gets drunk and shoots up a bar full of Russian soldiers.  At one point an officer screams at Dolph, "Are you out of your mind?"  To which Dolph replies, "No, just out of bullets."
 
 
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doggtag    vis mods   4/28/2011 8:42:30 AM
OK,
so I did some digging:
Rambo did use the vismodded Puma,(I'm curious if they tried to pawn off that Gazelle as a Havoc...? http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmilep.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" /> )
and it was Red Skorpion that used the vismodded Pelican/HH-3 airframe.
(see two of them in the movie poster: note the single engine intake. There were some more pics at some Dolph Lungren site,
 here,
and here.  ...)
 
Gotta be the Worst. Hind. Vismod. Ever.
 
...Was always kinda curious how the S-67 would've compared to the Hinds, had it made production and received suitable upgrades over the years...
 
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