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Subject: The Greatest Ace Ever?
Aussiegunneragain    7/17/2011 12:12:55 AM
I was just reading July's "Aviation History" and it had an article about Hans Ulrich-Rudel, a German ace operating over the Eastern Front. The guy only shot down nine enemy aircraft , not that flash for an ace, but he did it in a Stuka! He was never shot down by another aircraft himself, only by flak on several occasions, but survived the War (unfortunately, he was a miserable Nazi propagandist post-War but that doesn't take away from his skill). Here is the Wiki excerpt on his achievements. "According to official Luftwaffe figures, Rudel flew some 2,530 combat missions (a world record),[Notes 2] during which he destroyed almost 2,000 ground targets (among them 519 tanks, 70 assault craft/landing boats, 150 self-propelled guns, 4 armored trains, and 800 other vehicles) as well as 9 planes (2 Il-2's and 7 fighters).[citation needed] He was also responsible for the sinking of the Soviet battleship Marat, two cruisers and a destroyer.[citation needed] He was never shot down by another pilot, only by anti-aircraft artillery. He was shot down or forced to land 32 times, several times behind enemy lines." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Ulrich_Rudel#Achievements Thoughts?
 
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Hamilcar21    I am NOT impressed.    7/17/2011 12:23:48 AM

Coral Sea.

"At 11:14 a.m., Vejtasa's six planes were jumped by twelve   Zeros. Two Dauntlesses fell flaming into the water. Vejtasa managed to escape the first attack and yelled to his radio man: "Son, we're in for a scrap. Keep your head and conserve your ammunition.... I'll take care of the rest."

As the Zeros closed in again, Swede Vejtasa fought with the skill of a born fighter pilot. His rear gunner kept the swift Zeros off his flanks, while Vejtasa calmly leveled his sights at the Japanese fighters coming head on for the steady Dauntless. Again and again--three times--he maneuvered the scout bomber so that its two forward-firing guns ripped into a Zero. Three times a surprised Japanese pilot found himself spinning into the Coral Sea.

Another Dauntless pilot was proving he could handle the Zero too. Lieutenant John Leppla who, with his gunner D. K. Liska, had flamed four Japanese planes the day before during the bombing attack on the carrier Shoho, now put his newfound talent to work again. Without hesitation, Leppla sent his Dauntless plunging into the deadly enemy torpedo planes heading for the Lexington. Not only did Leppla send three of these Japanese bombers careening into the water below, he also saved the life of a fellow Dauntless pilot by a daring attack on a Zero, about to shoot down the American. (Later Commander Flatley picked outstanding bomber pilots like Swede Vejtasa and John Leppla, to form his new fighter group, which would be named the "Grim Reapers.")"

It was EXPECTED from Dauntless pilots.

H.


 

  

 
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earlm       7/17/2011 2:46:19 PM
Rudel flew a 190 for some of his missions IIRC.  A2A Marseille shot down 158 planes in a short period, 4 of them bombers the rest fighters.  He flew against the RAF and his victims flew Hurricanes, P-40's and IIRC Spitfires.  That, to me, is more impressive than the other German pilots piling up totals over long periods against the Russians.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       7/21/2011 10:36:55 PM
I'm still impressed with Hans U-R's achievements, irrespective of the achievements of the Dauntless pilots (which is also impressive). I wonder how many Dauntless pilots did that though.
 
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Thomas       10/24/2011 1:21:13 AM
Well - if nothing else - it goes to show the broadness of the alied force.
The French George Guinemere during WW1 had an incredible number of kills as well.
One of the last photografs of him show a thin young man staring blankly into the distance.
Clearly worn out - might as well have been said to have died of combat fatigue.
 
Guinemere did not survive the war. The remarkable was, that both Rudel and the other german did survive the war.
In my view it speaks more of the problems on the russian side tactics.
 
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LB       10/24/2011 4:49:23 AM
Marseille is extremely impressive in gaining almost all his victories against the RAF in a very short span of time and dying in 1942 at the age of 22 not related to enemy action.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       10/27/2011 4:12:34 AM


Well - if nothing else - it goes to show the broadness of the alied force.

The French George Guinemere during WW1 had an incredible number of kills as well.

One of the last photografs of him show a thin young man staring blankly into the distance.

Clearly worn out - might as well have been said to have died of combat fatigue.

 

Guinemere did not survive the war. The remarkable was, that both Rudel and the other german did survive the war.
In my view it speaks more of the problems on the russian side tactics.


 
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donstrock       11/21/2011 1:56:45 PM


by twelve
  Zeros. Two
Dauntlesses
fell flaming into the water. Vejtasa managed to escape the
first attack and yelled to his radio man: "Son,
we're in for a scrap. Keep your head and conserve
your ammunition.... I'll take care of the
rest."



As the Zeros closed in again, Swede Vejtasa
fought with the skill of a born fighter pilot. His
rear gunner kept the swift
Zeros
off his flanks, while Vejtasa calmly leveled his sights at the Japanese
fighters coming head on for the steady
Dauntless.
Again and again--three times--he
maneuvered the scout bomber so that its two forward-firing
guns ripped into a
Zero.
Three times a surprised Japanese pilot found himself spinning
into the Coral Sea.





Another
Dauntless
pilot was proving he could
handle the
Zero
too. Lieutenant John Leppla who,
with his gunner D. K. Liska, had flamed four
Japanese planes the day before during the bombing
attack on the carrier
Shoho, now put his newfound
talent to work again. Without hesitation,
Leppla sent his
Dauntless
plunging into the deadly
enemy torpedo planes heading for the Lexington.
Not only did Leppla send three of these Japanese
bombers careening into the water below, he
also saved the life of a fellow Dauntless pilot by a
daring attack on a
Zero,
about to shoot down the
American. (Later Commander Flatley picked outstanding
bomber pilots like Swede Vejtasa and
John Leppla, to form his new fighter group, which
would be named the "Grim Reapers.")"


It was EXPECTED from Dauntless pilots.


H.

---------
 
 
A few years ago I saw a computer reenactment of Vejtasa's battle.  He was a pretty cool customer.  I agree with you.   
 




 


 


  


 
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