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Subject: Rafale Proves Itself
SYSOP    8/7/2011 7:59:23 AM
 
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heraldabc    Wrong.   12/11/2011 9:55:00 AM
The F-16 Block 52 has not stood still.
 
You can't tweak a wrong antenna array geometry, DK. The RADAR is designed wrong as a propagator. You have to scrap and start over from scratch with a NEW radar when you screw that propagation geometry up. That gets VERY expensive and its very embarrassing. (Ask Northrop Grumman about Wedgetail.) So you do the next best thing as Thales or NG. You advise the operators and train them around the defect.  Its not just the RBE2 that this happened to. Some variants of AEGIS share the same exact defect.     
 
As the recent RQ-170 loss also proves, everyone makes operational and technical mistakes. Its just that the French MAKE SO DAMN MANY.  
 
H.
It shows in how willing you are to ignore technical evaluations (must be lyiiiing ! Jane's not reliable ! Me know better !) and the Libyan campaign* when they're not agreeing with your preconceptions. 
Now on to pricing... I wish we'd get out of the euro. 
 
* yes, Libya wasn't a military juggernaut. I guess this makes combat experience by recent American planes worthless, too, since Iraq and Taleban weren't exactly frightening adversaires in the air.
 
 

 
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halloweene       12/11/2011 11:44:30 AM
Lybian air force and DA before conflict inventory
 
Here is the theorical composition of lybian air force at the beginning of conflict (many of these planes werent operational, i admit)
around 375 planes :
- 1 bomber squad (6 TU22)
- 9 fighter squads (15 Mirage F1 ED, 94 Mig 25, 75 Mig 23, 45 Mig 21, 3 Mirage F1 BD, 3 Mig 25U
- 7 fighter/bomber squads (6 SU24 MK D, 14 Mirage F1 AD, 40 Mig 23 BN, 53 su17M2/SU20 , 15 Mig 23U
- 2 reco squads (7 Mig25R, 4 Mirage 5DP30
- unknown (to me) exact number of Hind Mi 25D and Mi35

Air defense : (5 regions)
- 3 brigades (each 20-24 SA6 or SA8)
- 2-3 brigades (12 SA3 each)
- 5-6 brigades with 18 SA2 each
- 4 brigades using SA5A (1 radar and 6 lauchers each)
- 4+ batallions anti aerial artillery

Not top of the notch inventory, but def not nothing.
 
 
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heraldabc    Meaningless.   12/11/2011 1:25:22 PM
Maintenance, training state, command and control issues, etc. Looks good on the ground or on paper is NOT in the air.
 
H.

Lybian air force and DA before conflict inventory

 


Here is the theorical composition of lybian air force at the beginning of conflict (many of these planes werent operational, i admit)
around 375 planes :
- 1 bomber squad (6 TU22)
- 9 fighter squads (15 Mirage F1 ED, 94 Mig 25, 75 Mig 23, 45 Mig 21, 3 Mirage F1 BD, 3 Mig 25U
- 7 fighter/bomber squads (6 SU24 MK D, 14 Mirage F1 AD, 40 Mig 23 BN, 53 su17M2/SU20 , 15 Mig 23U
- 2 reco squads (7 Mig25R, 4 Mirage 5DP30
- unknown (to me) exact number of Hind Mi 25D and Mi35

Air defense : (5 regions)
- 3 brigades (each 20-24 SA6 or SA8)
- 2-3 brigades (12 SA3 each)
- 5-6 brigades with 18 SA2 each
- 4 brigades using SA5A (1 radar and 6 lauchers each)
- 4+ batallions anti aerial artillery

Not top of the notch inventory, but def not nothing.
 

 
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halloweene       12/11/2011 2:27:46 PM
I quoted that in my post (maintenance probs).
 
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heraldabc       12/12/2011 2:19:53 PM
I quoted that in my post (maintenance probs).
 
No you didn't.
 
H.
 
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halloweene       12/12/2011 3:18:57 PM
"Many of these planes werent operational, i admit"
About SAMs, none of us know there efficiency at the begining of air strikes. Now if your only answer to a documented post is "They had maintenance problems" without quoting any info, it is just babbling.
Remember how you laugned at tactics in lybia at the beginning of thread...Well Ghadaffi is out..;That says all about your overall incompetence.
And no a canard is not a wing, a wing has a profile that give lift, canards dont (they are flat, only control surfaces).
Btw, did you finally admit that Rafale won the swiss technical evaluation?
Did CIA try to buy some mistral missiles to Cyprus army ?
Why dont you answer these  three simple questions?  Instead of permanently bashing french?
As i said before, take a look out of your cavern, go and talk to US military that were on battleground, you may find that there is def no probs between US and French combatants, neither sneers at french/US techs
Have a nice day
 
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heraldabc    Same garbage repeated.   12/12/2011 3:49:47 PM
Quit wasting my time. I've answered previously. If you have nothing new, why recycle? Its obvious you don't like thwe answers, but that's TOUGH.
 
I laugh at a lot of things, but I don't think military incompetence is very funny. And if you paid attention to the F-16 and Gripen threads where I dumped data all over the place, you would LEARN how I know the AdA turned in a piss poor performance in Libya and WHY.   
 
You don't have a clue as to what a cranked delta wing actually is do you?
 
Nope, because it didn't. 
 
And who cares? We buy Soviet CRAP systems to keep tthem out of the hands of terrorists. PRC bandits  were SOLD Mistrals which they since make as HQ-7s. How do you like them apples? Its now considered a (rather ineffective)  enemy system like many French systems are.
 
Of course you missed those answers because you were so busy playing Descartes logic games, you forgot the rest of the world moved beyond mere rhetorical debate to deal with FACTS...
 
...like Rafale failed again in the Swiss ev;ls.
 
Stick to subs which you can do well and leave aircraft manufacture and design to those who know how to build the damn things. 
 
H.
 
 
 

"Many of these planes werent operational, i admit"

About SAMs, none of us know there efficiency at the begining of air strikes. Now if your only answer to a documented post is "They had maintenance problems" without quoting any info, it is just babbling.

Remember how you laugned at tactics in lybia at the beginning of thread...Well Ghadaffi is out..;That says all about your overall incompetence.

And no a canard is not a wing, a wing has a profile that give lift, canards dont (they are flat, only control surfaces).

Btw, did you finally admit that Rafale won the swiss technical evaluation?

Did CIA try to buy some mistral missiles to Cyprus army ?

Why dont you answer these  three simple questions?  Instead of permanently bashing french?

As i said before, take a look out of your cavern, go and talk to US military that were on battleground, you may find that there is def no probs between US and French combatants, neither sneers at french/US techs

Have a nice day

 
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halloweene       12/12/2011 4:08:50 PM
Rofl Descates a rhetorician? And you claim to understand Nietzche? Go back to school buddy.
FACT is Adla didnt accidentally kill 37 pak soldiers (sry i dont want to go to us bashing but as its your way lets go in it)
FACT is Ghadaffi is out while no french/brit soldier is dead. Where is the failure? compare with present US situation in middle east.
FACT is US are going to leave Irak and Afghanistan in an awful mess, due to stupid neocons politics.(not including us soldiers, they do a nice job there, even if they need an average of 20000 cartridges for each neutralized insurgent).
FACT is trying to buy mistral was a spying act, exactly what you charge french for.
FACT is F35 is the biggest industrial failure since 50 years (but you do know how to build a plane /ROFL), it will work properly...In 2020 at 200 million dollars each? (see Mc Cain etc.)
FACT is also you keep denying it despite bunch of evidences Rafale won the tech eval in switzerland (but yes as swiss MoD said, "best tech was not needed by swiss")
I dunno why you are talking to me about a cranked delta wing, but if you really look at RAfale early programs, it was considered then rejected...Nvm i NEVER posted about cranked delta wings. Is it a diversion ?
finally 
FAct is you are simply huh? SIMPLE? Go and eat a chocolate box, your life must be like that...
 
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halloweene       12/12/2011 4:10:12 PM
Plz give me links about your analysis in gripen and F16 sections, i need a good laugh before hitting bed!
 
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heraldabc       12/12/2011 5:01:24 PM

halloweene       12/12/2011 4:08:50 PM
Rofl Descates a rhetorician? And you claim to understand Nietzche? Go back to school buddy.
 
READ>   Apparently I KNOW a hell, of a LOT more about Descartes than you do, as I also know about aircraft.
 
FACT is Adla didnt accidentally kill 37 pak soldiers (sry i dont want to go to us bashing but as its your way lets go in it)
 
Nope. Just blew up the wrong oil field and killed dozens of Libyans 
FACT is Ghadaffi is out while no french/brit soldier is dead. Where is the failure? compare with present US situation in middle east.
 
Shall I? Osama Bin Laden GONE, Saddam Hussein GONE, Hosni Mubarrak GONE, Hafaz Assad on his way out. Saudis muzzled, and the Paks split and virtually CIA occupied. Not bad for one of Uncle's worst mismanaged and half-arsed efforts in region. What has France done? Oh yeah; bungled Libya and screamed "Save us Uncle Sugar!" And I would point out that there ARE missing DGSE operatives unaccounted for on top of that. 
FACT is US are going to leave Irak and Afghanistan in an awful mess, due to stupid neocons politics.(not including us soldiers, they do a nice job there, even if they need an average of 20000 cartridges for each neutralized insurgent).
A. We are not imperialist pretenders and bandits. 
B. We are not going anywhere. We have 17,000 CONTRACTORS in  Iraq. 
FACT is trying to buy mistral was a spying act, exactly what you charge french for.
Buying up scrap to keep it away from terrorists and bandits is not spying. Stealing Raytheon factory data and computer files IS.
FACT is F35 is the biggest industrial failure since 50 years (but you do know how to build a plane /ROFL), it will work properly...In 2020 at 200 million dollars each? (see Mc Cain etc.)
It flies, and YOUR radars are useless against it. How is that a failure?  
 
As for the links, its right below this topic, on the fighters page of this site. Typical fanboy, expect me to do all your work for you. Get to work and DIG for it.
 \
FACT is also you keep denying it despite bunch of evidences Rafale won the tech eval in switzerland (but yes as swiss MoD said, "best tech was not needed by swiss")
 Another lie. If it succeeded it would have been selected.
I dunno why you are talking to me about a cranked delta wing, but if you really look at RAfale early programs, it was considered then rejected...Nvm i NEVER posted about cranked delta wings. Is it a diversion ?
finally 
Because the Rafale is actually BUILT around one. That wing was NEVER rejected. It just had canards addwed to the strakes as control surface winglets.  Sheesh, don't you know ANYTHING?  
FAct is you are simply huh? SIMPLE? Go and eat a chocolate box, your life must be like that...
Fact is that you need to work on your insults I've just insulted you EIGHT times 

 
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