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Subject: Rafale Proves Itself
SYSOP    8/7/2011 7:59:23 AM
 
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heraldabc    @ R   12/26/2011 4:35:23 PM
I'm trying to assemble an N-1 model rocket. Once I get it working, I'll see if I have better luck than the Russians did.
 
 
@ BW  what Hironde did in 1987 as a lawyer and accountant has no relevance as to what happens to the Rafale NOW, except he may have been one of the IDIOTS who mismanaged the committee choices then. It may explain why he was kicked out of Dassault's military division into Falcon Air. I would also like to know why he retired so suddenly from that gig. Never did get the true story about that one...
 
 
 
Never mind, typical Dassault screw-up in the flight control software and QC defects.   
 
H
 
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BWisBack       12/26/2011 5:08:47 PM
Herald , when will you stop ???
You said (I quote) :
 
""@ BW  what Hironde did in 1987 as a lawyer and accountant has no relevance as to what happens to the Rafale NOW, except he may have been one of the IDIOTS who mismanaged the committee choices then. It may explain why he was kicked out of Dassault's military division into Falcon Air. I would also like to know why he retired so suddenly from that gig. Never did get the true story about that one... ""
 
I read that 3 times and I still CAN 'T find anything true in it . It is all hot air , invented stuff from your sick mind .
It is not the place nor the time to post Mr Hironde ENTIRE biography but you are all wrong .
Keep posting your rubbish and hopefully , you will be gone soon as I can 't beleive that the rare Mods here will allow such attitude . Can 't you see that you 're making a fool of yourself ?
You are the most despicable poster I came across  since I use the net . You are a crook and you are sick , you should seek medical help , really .
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
 
 
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heraldabc    Not my fault you cannot keep up.   12/26/2011 7:59:30 PM
Its been established solidly that post 1993 by now Hironde had ZERO input into the Squall. You were foolish enough to supply MOST of that evidence!
 
H.

 

I read that 3 times and I still CAN 'T find anything true in it . It is all hot air , invented stuff from your sick mind .

It is not the place nor the time to post Mr Hironde ENTIRE biography but you are all wrong .

Keep posting your rubbish and hopefully , you will be gone soon as I can 't beleive that the rare Mods here will allow such attitude . Can 't you see that you 're making a fool of yourself ?

You are the most despicable poster I came across  since I use the net . You are a crook and you are sick , you should seek medical help , really .

 

Cheers .

 

 

 

 

 
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BWisBack       12/26/2011 8:49:33 PM
Herald , nothing but your stupidity has been solidly established .
 
Without me , you wouldn 't even know who is Jean-Claude Hironde .
Now , you understood that it is suicidal to deny anymore than Mr Hironde was the Rafale Program Manager so you switch to dates and even there , you got everything wrong . Can 't you see that I am nailing you at every post ?
 
Since I am fed up with your BS , here is a little scratch-course on Mr Hironde :
 
When he left the "ecole Nationale supérieure de l ' aeronautique et de l ' espace" (Phd , Masters)  , he signed with Dassault in 1969 . He starts working on fuselage and stuctures design and he takes part in the Mirage F1 program . Soon , he becomes the technical Director of the program and the follow-up Mirage F1CR program .
In 1986 , he leads the ACX/Rafale A program . In 1987 , he becomes the Rafale Program Manager up to 1992 where he also becomes President of the Group Rafale . He keeps leading the entire program up to 1993 .
From 1994 to 2000 , he is President of the GIFAS , Dassault General Defense Director and then General Admin of ONERA for Dassault .
In 2003 , he is the Falcon 7X General technical Director and becomes the Falcon Program Manager up to 2007 .
He retire the same year after 38 years of "service" within Dassault .
 
Now that you know , stop polluting the thread , keep your mouth shut and keep learning from me . Thank you .
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
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Aussiegunneragain    Reactive - Hey!!! ...   12/26/2011 9:42:34 PM

AG playing a 48 hour dragon-hunting marathon in his new MMORPG
 

 


 


 

 
 ..... I was loosely relating the advertisement to visions of you lot doing 24 hour google foo defending/attacking the Rafale ..... and I'm empathetic because of my recent attachment to the said activity!!! When do you think I ever had time to be playing a MMORG while I was writing book length contributions on here!!!
 
Anyway, I hope you had a Merry Xmas, Smartarse and I hope the rest of you did too. I'm taking the Hilux Turbo Diesel 4 x 4 dual cab ute that I bought when I was first confronted by that ad and going camping for the next couple of days :-). 
 
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heraldabc    Again as I said and previously translated.    12/27/2011 8:34:18 AM
You just added your cherry lie on top and tried to misinterpret the truth revealed.
 
Have a happy new year.
 
And learn to tell the truth?
 
H.
 
 

Now , you understood that it is suicidal to deny anymore than Mr Hironde was the Rafale Program Manager so you switch to dates and even there , you got everything wrong . Can 't you see that I am nailing you at every post ?

 

Since I am fed up with your BS , here is a little scratch-course on Mr Hironde :

 

When he left the "ecole Nationale supérieure de l ' aeronautique et de l ' espace" (Phd , Masters)  , he signed with Dassault in 1969 . He starts working on fuselage and stuctures design and he takes part in the Mirage F1 program . Soon , he becomes the technical Director of the program and the follow-up Mirage F1CR program .

In 1986 , he leads the ACX/Rafale A program . In 1987 , he becomes the Rafale Program Manager up to 1992 where he also becomes President of the Group Rafale . He keeps leading the entire program up to 1993 .

From 1994 to 2000 , he is President of the GIFAS , Dassault General Defense Director and then General Admin of ONERA for Dassault .

In 2003 , he is the Falcon 7X General technical Director and becomes the Falcon Program Manager up to 2007 .

He retire the same year after 38 years of "service" within Dassault .

 

Now that you know , stop polluting the thread , keep your mouth shut and keep learning from me . Thank you .

 

Cheers .

 



 

 
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Reactive       12/27/2011 10:29:04 AM
 ..... I was loosely relating the advertisement to visions of you lot doing 24 hour google foo defending/attacking the Rafale ..... and I'm empathetic because of my recent attachment to the said activity!!! When do you think I ever had time to be playing a MMORG while I was writing book length contributions on here!!!

Anyway, I hope you had a Merry Xmas, Smartarse and I hope the rest of you did too. I'm taking the Hilux Turbo Diesel 4 x 4 dual cab ute that I bought when I was first confronted by that ad and going camping for the next couple of days :-). 
 
 
Damn you and your enormous sunny nation!! 
 
It's not fair at all but have a great New Year, be very careful of crass stereotypes, there's plenty in the outback!
 
 
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45-Shooter       12/29/2011 2:28:29 PM


It would be nice if you could stop posting your opinion as facts . Would it ever!

Very little of what you say is actually correct . Boy is that true!

Like Halloweene said , you should first read some studies on coupled canard design FROM Dassault and not from any other sources and certainly not from a US source . Saab can also be trusted . Why, they did not say anything that has not been said here first!

Those people are the ones who know I like the way that Dasault states the exact same effects of choices as most others here!
You are wrong on so many basics that it is a disgrace. How would you know, when you have been so very wrong on so many things?

I tell you that in the USA , only Boeing would be able to build a "decent" close couple canard design fighter. Not worth answering! 

Now , whatever you say and whatever you think , the Rafale is a better flyer than the Viper at all the regime you can think of and here again , numbers talk , not me. Then please answer this one specific fact, Which plane, Viper or Rafale can tote FOUR Mk-84s, Four AMRAAMs and FIVE SECONDS worth of Cannon fire farther? Post a link to a Dasault answer! Right?

Everything that favors NOT the Rafale , acceleration in both subsonic and supersonic , better sustained turn rate in both subsonic and supersonic , better instantaneous turn rate at all regimes and altitude , better wing loading , better T/W , better engines (by the way , I found the max sustainable core temp of the M88-2 ECO: What is the permissable Core Temp if the engine must last 6,000 hours between TBOs!
One thing you never talked about Herald , is the fact that the Rafale has the best Flight Control System Worldwide.  Why on Earth would you think this? Since FBW was invented in America and the French System is made, at least in part, under American Patents? The French are known to everbody to make the best FCS and the Rafale was the first fighter to use CDVO (Commande De Vol Optique): Fly-By-Light (as opposed to fly-by-wire). How many DECADES have passed since the first, second and third American Planes flew with FBL, before Rafale's first flight? RIGHT like so many other defects in knowledge you display!
8 times out of 10 , a M2000 (-5 or -9 , up to you) wax a Blk 52/60 in dogfight and 9 times out of 10 a Rafale wax a M2000 in dogfight . Why's this your conclusion ?

Why do you think the Rafale gave such a hard time to the F-22 for the later to be able to score ? Take a Viper and the same F-22 and see how it goes , ouch ... I note that harder to score is not the same as failure to score which marks the Rafale to date! Please list Rafale wins at Red Flag! RIGHT!

 

Btw Herald (and others) , here is a small bit of an article from the Garuda IV Joint exercise in France with India and Singapore. The aircraft involved for 2 weeks were :

- India Su-30MKIs
- Singapore F-16Ds Blk 52+
- France M2000C/RDIs
- France M2000-5s
- France Rafale F3s
It is interesting . The entire article is really a good read since it wasn 't a NATO excercise : I almost agree, except that it is from a Rafale sales agent! But wait, none of those countries bought the Rafale? Why was that if it really was so good? PS as of this very moment, Saudi Arabia announced to buy F-15! Why was Rafale under consideration, but not bought IF it was really so good Vs the F-15? RIGHT!

  

See my replies in red and yellow to your specific points. The last bit is the BEST! The Kingdom bought the F-15! When given the choise, those countries that can, buy the MORE EXPENCIVE F-15 over the Rafale! Why on earth is that?
 
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45-Shooter       12/29/2011 2:41:09 PM


Shooter,

 

A bit delayed response, but in fairness to the M88 I wanted to make sure you understand the difference between using hours for an inspection and TACs (total accumulated cycles).  Cycles count the cycling of power on the aircraft (i.e. from burner to idle or vice versa, or some smaller amount) that cause a lot of wear and tear.  How many hours you can get out of it can vary quite a bit - if flying cross country or in a CAS wheel, you may only get a couple cycles over several hours.  If however, you go and do a BFM hop, with you may get 6 or 7 cycles in an hour.

 

Also, the eventual goal for the M88-2 was 1,000 hours time between overhauls. Not sure if they are there yet with the step 4 mod.  The M88-4 is supposed to extend life further.  It's a lot like the initial teething pains the F100-100 went through, which led to the -220's which were a bit heavier but more robust. 

http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);" target="_blank">link...


You are right about most of this, but if I do not get 10-12 cycles in 15-20 minutes of ACM, I did not get my jollies! See "Forty second Boyd" But the basic point is right! But 6,000 hours to inspection, vs 400 hours to TBO as CURRENTLY DEMONSTRATED by the M-88/XX variant of choice, is still the ultimate point! Also what is the spool time to thrust WO going to Re-Heat of the M-88 Vs the F-100/any and F-110/any? One more instance of meaningless factoid Vs useful data!
 
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45-Shooter    Just a tid bit, but it's a biggy!   12/29/2011 3:28:38 PM


@MK :

 

""Any source for this? I'm aware that Snecma has been working on a turbine which can sustain up to 2100 K, but has this technology been implemented into any M88 variant? ""

 

In all my entire doc on the Rafale , only one paper talk about 2100 C . All the others say 2100 K .

So , I guess it 's a typo error and I go for 2100 C . I will call a friend and try to know more .

 

""Next to the fact that "best FCS" is a bold claim without proper proof, FBL is certainly something I hear about the first time wrt the Rafale! A credible source would be nice, because EVERY source I have seen (including Dassault, AdA, MN...) states FBW!""

 

Only the first prototypes used the FBW . The FBL has been tested later on on a M2000 and implemented on the serie Rafales under the name CDVO (Commandes De Vol Optiques) .
h*tp://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1986/1986%20-%200009.html
h*tp://www.armees.com/le-dassault-rafale,34602.html?artpage=3-5
h*tp://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale
 
@Herald :
 
""its an AMRAAM dream shot.""
Negative . Amraam 's seeker and Up-link will be jammed .
 
""At last he admits Dassault/THALES SCREWED UP ""
Negative . Where did you get that anyway ? From your sick mind ?
Also , the SH hasn 't been designed to fight high and fast . This sluggish plane has very little chance of winning vs Rafale .
 
""F-35 and the Strike Eagle. Tests for tghe Sparky and COMBAT for the BEAGLE.""
 
The F-35 did not demonstrate anything yet , even in testing . The Strike-Eagle scored lower in Technicals than the Rafale , anyway it is an inferior aircraft and its survivability is compromised big time . 
 
""Its optimised for THICK air as much as it can be.""
 
False . You obviously don 't read the Dassault studies I post . The Rafale works like a charm high and fast .
 
""USAF had no trouble tracking them during Red Flag.""
 
During RedFlag , Spectra is used as an ELINT system , not as a jammer as it is forbiden by AdlA and USAF rules .
 
""No algorithm, No Threat Library, limited retran  radiate power and computers a gen behind their competitors..""
 
False . Sources ? Prove you case or shut up , I said no more BS as long as I was going to be there .
 
""you cannot put RAM on a fuel probe. Corrosion and surface pitting from JP-mixes are the LEAST of your worries. ""
 
False , you don 't know what you are talking about . The rubber based RAM coating on the probe is changed every now and then as it 's degrading over time .
All in all Herald , you 're still bashing for free with no credible sources and you know too little . Learn French and go to some French military forums and let 's see how long you last .
 
Cheers .
 
 
 

 



No, I can't do it again! To many defects to list!
 
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