Does anyone here believe this stuff?

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Subject: Does anyone here believe this stuff?
45-Shooter 12/29/2011 6:46:30 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M&feature=related Can anyone here tell me what is wrong with this video?

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Reactive 1/9/2012 12:09:27 AM

Excellent, BW, any more fantasies to share?

The fact you take yourself even remotely seriously is incredible.

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Slim Pickinz yet again..focusing purely on platforms... 1/9/2012 2:38:38 PM

BW you are yet again "fantasizing", as Reactive put it, looking only at while completely ignoring the whole picture. You don't think that the F-35 mission corridor wouldn't already have been sanitized by F-22s while riding CAP the whole way in? Or slipping past Flanker derivatives unnoticed under a blanket of ECM jamming from Growlers and UAVs with Super Hornets guarding the flock?

Also BW, I agree with you on some aspects. The personal attacks do need to stop. This should be a forum for informed discussion, not a bitchfight between repeat offenders. That being said, the ignorance and unwillingness to change between you AND herald needs to stop. The Rafale is a good choice for India's needs and should deserve the contract. But it is NOT the game-changing, do-everything miracle aircraft you make it out to be.

On the other end, I do have some real concerns for the F-35. Being Canadian, I think we are being duped by Harper and Defense Minister Peter McKay on our purchase for 66 F-35s for the ridiculous price of $75 million. Personally, given our commitment to NATO and our participation in air operations, as well as the large size of our country's airspace, we should be buying Super Hornets instead. The most important aspect is the need for a twin-engined aircraft, as northern Canada is vast and suitable landing strips are few and far between. If and when an F-35 experiences an engine failure on a northern patrol, the aircraft will likely be lost and the pilot will have to punch out into an unforgiving environment, decreasing the chances of a successful SAR effort to recover the pilot before he dies of exposure. The other reason is that we as a country only engage in coalition air operations, and therefore will already be operating with other aircraft performing the "first day" missions, as we would have a flexible mulirole aircraft capable of heavy mission use from day two on.

So it will be interesting to see the capabilities of a fully operational F-35, then you can debate yourself to death. But UNTIL then, stop this stupid unending bickering!

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heraldabc Slim.... 1/9/2012 2:43:22 PM

Who knows what they are talking about here?

If you look at the other active (Rafale) aircraft thread, I think you will understand why I am exasperated.

The man is what he is.

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Slim Pickinz edits and sp mistakes (sorry grammar Nazi) 1/9/2012 2:48:53 PM

On the other end, I do have some real concerns for the F-35. Being Canadian, I think we are being duped by Harper and Defense Minister Peter McKay on our purchase for 66 F-35s for the ridiculously low price of $75 billion. Personally, given our commitment to NATO and our participation in air operations, as well as the large size of our country's airspace, we should be buying Super Hornets instead. An AESA-equipped aircraft that while not VLO, can carry a heavier mission load farther than the F-35. The most important aspect is the need for a twin-engined aircraft, as northern Canada is vast and suitable landing strips are few and far between. If and when an F-35 experiences an engine failure on a northern patrol, the aircraft will likely be lost and the pilot will have to punch out into an unforgiving environment, decreasing the chances of a successful SAR effort to recover the pilot before he dies of exposure. The other reason is that we as a country only engage in coalition air operations, and therefore will already be operating with other aircraft performing the "first day" missions, as we would have a flexible mulirole aircraft capable of heavy mission use from day two on.

So it will be interesting to see the capabilities of a fully operational F-35, then you can debate yourself to death. But UNTIL then, stop this stupid unending bickering!

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Slim Pickinz edits and sp mistakes (sorry grammar Nazi) 1/9/2012 2:55:56 PM

Who knows what they are talking about here?

If you look at the other active (Rafale) aircraft thread, I think you will understand why I am exasperated.

The man is what he is.

Oh I've been on this site since 2005. I've read most of them, until I had to stop from the repetition of it all. No offense, but I can see the national bias in both of you. Unfortunately BW is much less informed on almost every subject than you and most of the other regulars on this site. The problem is that he won't shut up about his perspectives, and you can't stop yourself from going after him for it. Something needs to change...

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JTR~~ what an odd video 1/15/2012 11:01:17 AM

by the logic used in this video, one may state, by reading between the lines that is, that in fact, the Eurofighter Typhoon takes the title of best air superiority fighter out there as it is widely agreed by most people that out of all the current 4th and 4.5 gen planes out there the EF comes top of the field, all the Russian aircraft shown, as im sure everyone has noted all fall within this field. in all reality, can it lay claim to this title, very unlikely unless there are some serious deficiencies in the design and operating practice of the F-22 which i think we can all agree is highly unlikely as the US usually has a competent idea about what it is doing when it dabbles in this field, they have been doing it for long enough. either that or the EF carries some form of hitherto unheard of sensor suite capable of tracking and obtaining missile lock on an F-22 at BVR ranges that out-extend the F-22's line of sight. on which matter i would still like to add that as i always choose to maintain, a fight between a Raptor and a Typhoon within the confines of visual range would still be far from a forgone conclusion.

through the sheer composition of this video one can see its true intentions. the ridiculous level of face time as it were given to the Russian aircraft highlights the pre-determined agenda behind the video, this is further accentuated yet again through the types of footage used. the US craft have been presented in a very lax manner, often showing un-emotive footage of them performing take off or taxiing procedures, whereas the Russian craft perform expert aerobatics and complex combat flight patterns.

in actual fact, im unsure as to why im giving the video even this level of analysis as it clearly does not merit it, nor should it be taken seriously by any other person here, not to mention the comments section of that video, sheer nationalist, highly biased ignorance and little more, its laughable.

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45-Shooter 12/22/2012 1:06:42 PM

Intellect is spelled with two l's.

True, but I never ever claimed the ability to spell. It is a rellic of Dyslexia diagnosed at age three point five to four years old.

Because of it I have never learned to spell all that well and do not take the slightest offence to those who would use that fact against me. On the other hand, my "Intellect" is vastly more powerfulk than yours!

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45-Shooter 12/22/2012 1:19:49 PM

Now , some talk about powerful Aesa radars (the other sides also have Aesa) , about EODAS , about powerful ECMs , etc ... Well , what 's the point if you can 't turn and run and come back again because your aircraft is sluggish and under-armed ??? And if you are called WVR by a Flanker with HMD , you are toast . Its energy and astonishing flight characteristics will kill you 9 times out of 10 .
Wrong! The Stealthier AC gets off the first missile and kills several less stealthy targets before they know what hit them.

Short legged? Compared to what? Last I heard we were talking 1200 nm with internal fuel only.

At 455 Knots, 36,000' and no external stores except wing tip missiles and two on the chines.

Enormous IR signature compared to what? Can't be any worse on a throttle setting for throttle setting comparison than anything elseout there.

Compaired to ALL American planes with their very much higher by-pass ratio turbofan engines! But wait, it gets worse than that! It seems that the Typhoon also has higher Bypass Ratio engines than Rafale???

And as for the "can't turn around" thing - you do know that shots directly aft of the aircraft were demonstrated using helmet cued ASRAAM and AIM-9X almost a decade ago? Why do you need to come around if you got first look, first shot and presumably first kill?

Matters very little if the Stealthy shooter has already launched at you from 40 Nautical Miles away, does it?

Why do you value the HMD on the Flanker so much while discarding the far superior EODAS/EOTS combination on the F3?

F35 is generally described by pilots who've flown it as about as agile as an F16 with much better transonic thrust. Can't say that's sluggish, particularly not if it's toting missiles that can manage 80g off the rail.

Every time I look at Rafale, I think of an over weight F-16 WO tyhe high bypas engines and aspect ratio to give it range and bomb load!

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45-Shooter Totaly irealivant! 12/29/2012 3:08:11 PM

Re-reading all of these posts after some absence, I find this one particularly egregious.

The two radars pictured are not all that different in their radiated power and antenna receiver gain. Both points that all Phased Array Radars give away to those with conventional dish antennas.

What they get in return is the ability to look in all directions at once. This last is a huge advantage!

The problem with older Radars is that it took a genius to operate them. The more modes they had the more difficult they were to use. However, and that is a huge detail, given a "Master Switchologist" in a plane like the F-15C, or Su-27 with their huge dishes, either plane would have a very significant advantage in detection and tracking ranges! Even against so called 4th gen "stealthy" targets that had AESA Radars.

Because no mater what you say, or think, the RWR is going to tell you the other guy is out there long before he can get a good return. In return, he can get a semi-stealthy track and lock on you long before you can do the same.

This is the reason why there is so much talk about ways to avoid "First Look" and it's attendant consequences!

There are in fact only two types of jet fighter planes out there; the F/A-22 and all of the other targets!

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45-Shooter Totaly irealivant! 12/29/2012 3:28:17 PM

What posters should keep in mind is the fact that Thalès could only use the available space (which is not very big) to fit the best and biggest Aesa radar they could fit while still keeping room enough for the OSF-NG .

No, the reason thay used more small moduals is that they could not cary the required power dencity in any one of them. Read Janes Avionics and divide the T/R Power by the number of moduals!

Every available inch or centimeter had to be used . There is some clever design at work here , whatever some nasty poster(s) may say .

It is all said above.
If the Rafale 's nose was 1m wide , do you think that Thalès would have used a 1.000 T/R modules fixed plate ? If it was 1 M wide, it would be a twenty tonne fighter like the F-18.

On an other forum , we have a very similar discussion . We (English and French posters) are discussing the diffences in between the futur Captor-E and the present RBE2-AA . The Eurofighter will get a bigger array mounted on a swash-plate with more juice which means that the Eurofighter will enjoy a better radar range and a better bore-sight look . 2 key features for AtoA fighting and there is no need to deny it .

Thank you GOD!

OTOH , we expect Thalès to keep an edge on beam forming and ECCMs and the RBE2-AA roadmap already includes GaN based modules , operational by 2018 which is not the case with the Captor-E who has no roadmap path so far .

Have you ever read what they say in Janes about it?

The actual SPECTRA ECM suite will get the GaN modules in 2015-2016 .

Have you ever read what they say in Janes about it. Spectra is decades behind schedual and it does not work Vs 4th Gen fighter radars like they want it to. So far it is a paper tiger with out claws!

The jump from GaAs to GaN will allow the radar to reach something like 260km range head-on vs a 3 square meters target as well as new ways to do beam forming and power management .
Wishful thinking!

Since India wants the MMRCA fighter to be operational within the IAF by 2016 , the Rafale fits the bill while the Typhoon comes a bit short and its roadmap is not clearly known . Which AC did India actuall buy?

We are discussing what a F4+ Rafale (2018) with GaN ECMs/Radar and OSF-NG loaded with 4 Meteors , 2 RF Micas , 2 IR Micas and a single supersonic drop-tank could do versus anything Pakistani or Chinese . Since the fighter has a very good internal fuel capability , it could drop the supersonic fuel tank before the merge and fight "clean" with its low RCS .If they can't get the current version to work as they said it would thirty years ago, what makes you think they will have the current set up to original spec by then, let alone the new and improved version?

The Rafale already managed to force F-22s to call "Bingo" in WVR and it WILL force a Typhoon to go "Bingo" first if only internal fuel is available (to keep the RCS low) . Yes , they are not Paki or Chinese aircraft , just another 2 cents .Just where on earth and when was this marvelous event supposed to have happened?

So , to come back to the thread at hand , could the futur F-35 compete in that area ? I don 't think so .That is your entire problem, you do not think!

Even if the F-35 can out smart the RF missiles , it will have do deal with the IR ones since it can 't run away .All irrealivant!

Against a Rafale or a Typhoon , the combat is going to be very different for the Flanker .
Yes this is true! Typhoon is stealthier than Rafale, has a larger more reliable Radar, higher by-pass engines with lower IR signature and better Missiles. Yes, combat between the three types will be very different.

Why on Earth would you think any of this crap when no Nation on Earth with a choice has bought Rafale?This is a massive, probable the single most egregious instance of promissing the world and delivering a pile of...

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