Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: F-35 vs. Eurofighter
IAFbestinworld    8/13/2004 11:49:07 PM
Lockheed says that besides the f-22, the f-35 will be the best air to air fighter in the future, is this true? Could an f-35 take a Eurofighter? My opinion says yes since f-35 contains more stealthy characteristics.
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46   NEXT
AussieEngineer    RE:F-35   1/31/2005 7:18:10 PM
Thats a bit fragmented there spudman, but did you say that the Eurofighter would be more agile than an F-22? I doubt that the either of the euro-canards would hold an advantage over the F-22 in a dogfight. The F-22 has very powerful engines and thrust vectoring. I don't know for sure but I believe that it would have a higher sustained turn rate because of its more conventional wing. In terms of general effectiveness as close range they are probably equal.
 
Quote    Reply

SpudmanWP    Um.. that was not me :) that was JSF (nt)..   1/31/2005 7:59:18 PM
Um.. that was not me :) that was "JSF"
 
Quote    Reply

AussieEngineer    RE:Um.. that was not me :) that was JSF (nt)..   2/1/2005 3:16:05 AM
sorry, spudman, yeah I ment JSF but for some reason spudman popped out.
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings    RE:Um.. that was not me :) that was JSF (nt)..   2/1/2005 11:04:13 AM
The latest generation of Fighters has been designed towards BVR . Dogfights are to be avoided even with the agility of today 's Aircrafts . You loose speed , energy , fuel and time when dogfighting ... Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

JSF    RE:Um.. that was not me :) that was JSF (nt)..   2/2/2005 1:40:09 PM
ladyes i ment what after BVR??? ,CAC and what after CAC???the answer is dogfight ok in BVR if u want F22 to take out Eurofighter u must flyover and avoid the rader of Eurofighter then u take it out.... how ???i don`t know how?? but if F22 comes near Eurofighter in dogfight F22 will be slow and her big body will be a broblem so Eurofighter will be easy for her to take out F22 by the way my name is jsf
 
Quote    Reply

AussieEngineer    RE:Um.. that was not me :) that was JSF (nt)..   2/2/2005 7:49:40 PM
Apparently you don't know to much about either aircraft JSF.
 
Quote    Reply

Phaid    RE:Um.. that was not me :) that was JSF (nt)..   2/2/2005 8:07:06 PM
And to think I was joking when I said in that other thread that someone would likely take my sarcastic comments about AA-2s vs AIM-9X seriously and actively defend them.
 
Quote    Reply

Shooter    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/2/2005 11:56:35 PM
When many here talk of stealth they forget that one of the bigest contributers to RCS is RE-RADIATION. That is were the incomming signal hits the target and "crawls along the skin" untill it hits a discontinuety and is then RE-RADIATED! As the plane gets more stealthy, it becomes far and away the single largest contributer of RCS! NONE OF THE EURO-CANARDS IS EVEN FAIR IN THIS RESPECT!!! The B-1B IS MORE STEALTHY THAN ANY OF THEM!!! That the Rafael is "MORE STEALTHY" than Typhoon is ir-realivant! Niether of the two, or Grippen for that matter is "STEALTHY" at all as we use the term! They all show up on F-15c's Radar at truely long ranges! The kind of ranges were AIM-120's kill three or four before they know what happened, long ranges! None of the three is as stealthy as the F-15 from certain oblique clossing aspects! With their small antenna's, low radiated power and realitively large compairitavely RCS's, NONE OF THE THREE IS A MATCH FOR THE F-15 IN ANY COMBAT ARENA!!!! Furthermore the high induced drag of the canard delta configuration when combined with the lower T/W and higher T/D means that none of them would stand much of a chance in a dog fight with an F-15c little own any newer type. While quoted figures "LOOK" good, they are meaningless. Take the EEW, ( Empty Equiped Weight) add the weight of the three tanks it has to cary to get any where, Two medium sized missiles, two mini-missiles and 150 rounds of cannon ammo THEN DEVIDE BY MILITARY THRUST! ALL THREE OF THE EURO-CANARDS ARE SO DEFICIANT IN RANGE THAT THEY CAN NOT COMPETE WITH THE F-15 WITHOUT TANKS. Those tanks and their attendant drag reduce the T/D of all three of them so badly that they are not competitive with any of their larger competiter types, like F/A-18E. Everyone uses full burner when they make the comparos, but fuel useage at that throttle setting is so high that it can not be used tacticaly. the restrictions placed on throttle by range are such that without tanker support, NO AIRCRAFT EXCEPT THE F/A-22 CAN EXCEED M-0.93 IN ACTUAL OPPERATIONS FOR MORE THAN A FEW SECONDS!!!!! Because we have eleven or twelve times the tanker support of the rest of the world combined, only US planes can use burner and get away with it! The Rafale does without an internal bay because they chose to do without when they were sizing the plane for "EXPORT" SALES. If you go back to the origional pitches to their resective MoD's, the French wanted an eight tonne EEW plane, which has now grown to 10 or 11 tonnes depending on who you belive. The Brits who knew that it would never cary the loads wanted a 9-10 tonne plane from the git go. I know, I was working on the Peace Sun/F-15 Program at the time and got weekly brieffings on the other contenders. When it became apparent that they would both be Canard Delta's, we heaved a gigantic sigh of relife, knowing that the choises would doom them in the "OFF DESIGN POINT" part of the envelope. The C-D was chosen because it alowed a smaller plane with a smaller power plant to do "SOME THINGS" as well(?) as a bigger planes at those design points. It has since become well known that many of the compromises that were taken hurt both designs when compaired to the F-15/18 size of plane. Because of the controle law athority limmets built in to the C-D's, NONE OF THEM WILL BE AS RESPONCIVE AS THE cwt PLANES. In addition, the low aspectratio and low installed T/W will prevent any of them from sustained maneuvering in the class of the F-15/16/22/35 or Mig-29/Su-27/35 class. As to radar, electronicaly steared antenas do not make up for small antenna size and low radiated power. I sincerely dought that any of them will be equal to or better than the F-16 in this regard. They will not approch the F-15/18/22 or Su-27/35 in this regard. Contrary to whay many here belive the ESA-Radar can not search significantly faster than a conventionaly equiped and mechanicaly steared antenna Radar. It still must transmit a sertain amount of energy on a sertain bearing and elivation and wait for that signal to return before it transmits on a new bearing and elivation. That amount of energy is made up of power and duration. That means how many pulses at what freq and RMS power in a given search string. When they want to acheave long range with a small antena, they must transmit more power for a longer time to make up for the reduced antena gain. I am willing to bet dollars against do-nuts that the last APG-73 in the F-15 will search a larger "VOLUME" of airspace than any of the three Euro-Canards in any given average time fraim. (I say average because there may be some points were the smaller set might be able to equal or even exceed the biger one, BUT IT WILL NEVER EQUAL IT ACROSS THE BOARD!) I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE! I also know a F-15c pilot or two who have tracked both the Rafale and Typhoon while on test flights without leaving German Airspace. Think about that for just a minute. Conformal weapons carrage and s
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/3/2005 10:43:27 AM
Quote : "NONE OF THE THREE IS A MATCH FOR THE F-15 IN ANY COMBAT ARENA!!!!" Rubbish . Quote : "NO AIRCRAFT EXCEPT THE F/A-22 CAN EXCEED M-0.93 IN ACTUAL OPPERATIONS FOR MORE THAN A FEW SECONDS!!!!!" False . Quote : "I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE!" If you knew , you wouldn 't put the F-16/18/15 series against Rafale or Typhoon . Quote : "(An F-15/18 will use less extra fuel to tote two Mk-84's than any of the Euro-Canard-Delta's. Each bomb is a much smaller percentage of the total MTO.)" Wrong again . Quote : "In addition, both US jets have Hi-Bypass Ratio fanjets with good fuel economy while the Typhoon and Rafale do not. That means when bombed and tanked up, they will go farther and stay longer than the ECD birds." Same topic , wrong again . Quote : "what can they do to try to reach parity with the F-15? Never happen" lol ! ...You must be joking . Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Hellfire    RE:French strategic and jsf?   2/3/2005 1:34:04 PM
lol.. and I hope that the APG-73 on an F-15 was a typo error...
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics