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Subject: F-35 vs. Eurofighter
IAFbestinworld    8/13/2004 11:49:07 PM
Lockheed says that besides the f-22, the f-35 will be the best air to air fighter in the future, is this true? Could an f-35 take a Eurofighter? My opinion says yes since f-35 contains more stealthy characteristics.
 
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DropBear    RE:Why are we arguing about this?   3/5/2006 7:51:51 AM
Because healthy debate (read - slagging another person/country) is deemed acceptable. If we didn't have a Euro-centric platform versus an American one then we would have to start threads on Ford Vs Holden or Mustang Vs Vette. Seems most like to participate in the former.
 
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MustangFlyer    RE:Why are we arguing about this?   3/5/2006 8:07:47 AM
Well can we get stuck into crap cars now?? I know what you are saying, but it is sad. Is this the future? US vs EU fightning vs learing, comparing, competening, working together? Rubbish.
 
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DropBear    RE:Why are we arguing about this?   3/5/2006 8:32:36 AM
Yep. Unfortunately.
 
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flamingknives    RE:Why are we arguing about this?   3/5/2006 8:53:03 AM
Well, if we were to get right down to it, I think you'll find that my ding-a-ling is bigger than yours. Or something like that.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Why are we arguing about this?   3/5/2006 2:15:47 PM
>>>Why are we arguing about this?<<< ---Its educational and fun if done properly. >>>(1) We are allies. Ok we disagree about some things ... duh ... so what?<<< ---Take a look at 31 October 1956 and also it would be wise to look at our post WWII relationship with our Soviet and Chinese Allies. >>>(2) From basic first principles ... no one plane can do everything<<< ---Thats not true anymore. Granted the tech is evolving. People who suggest that are trapped in a time warp. Look at aircraft like the F-15/16/18/35, Rafale and even a few others more or less. >>>(3) So combining our strengths seems sensible ... duh.<<< ---Not always. >>>(4) We have a mixture of planes, with different abilities.<<< ---ok >>>(5) Individually none are perfect for every mission .. (again) duh.<<< ---See above >>>(6) Combined, working off each others strengths .... unbeatable.<<< ---Maybe maybe not. >>>Some posts seem to indicate that EU/US should have a war (and even welcome that)..... get real.... now.<<< ---Because its possible and even likely assuming the EU ever becomes a coherent political entity. >>>We will always be allies, live with that.<<< ---You know those are usually the dying last words of someone right after being betrayed.
 
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MustangFlyer    RE:Why are we arguing about this?   3/7/2006 4:02:06 AM
>>>Why are we arguing about this?<<< ---Its educational and fun if done properly. [Agreed, but just taking a position just because of prejudice is immature. Its been good to talk to some people and share different data and anayses, I personally have learned a lot.] >>>(1) We are allies. Ok we disagree about some things ... duh ... so what?<<< ---Take a look at 31 October 1956 and also it would be wise to look at our post WWII relationship with our Soviet and Chinese Allies. [(1) There is a difference between long term allies and short term marriages of convenience, we could not beat Germany without the Soviets. Compared to very long (in the case of France since before Independence) relationships (societal, economic, governmental, military, etc) these were drops in the pan (2) The Chinese were allies in WW2, just their government was overthrown] >>>(2) From basic first principles ... no one plane can do everything<<< ---That’s not true anymore. Granted the tech is evolving. People who suggest that are trapped in a time warp. Look at aircraft like the F-15/16/18/35, Rafale and even a few others more or less. [Sorry .. you canna defy the laws of physics captain. So the F-22 is going to be an AWAC or lift soldiers? You know as well as I do that no individual weapon system means anything. It is the total integrated system that counts (including the often forgotten, non-glamorous maintenance, supplies, etc] >>>(3) So combining our strengths seems sensible ... duh.<<< ---Not always. [Rubbish .. except where coordination fails. Which is why US allies spend so much time working with them to coordinate well.] >>>(4) We have a mixture of planes, with different abilities.<<< ---ok >>>(5) Individually none are perfect for every mission .. (again) duh.<<< ---See above [ Scotty again. As a historical fact have a look at the Bosnian conflict and the role of Harriers.] >>>(6) Combined, working off each others strengths .... unbeatable.<<< ---Maybe maybe not. [Really, could anything take on a combined US/EU/Canadian/Australian/etc force at any level in conventional combat?] >>>Some posts seem to indicate that EU/US should have a war (and even welcome that)..... get real.... now.<<< ---Because its possible and even likely assuming the EU ever becomes a coherent political entity. [Again, nonsense. Could you imagine all the EU deciding and starting combat under any conditions imaginable. Unless you imagine the US would attack the EU (shades of Case Red this).] >>>We will always be allies, live with that.<<< ---You know those are usually the dying last words of someone right after being betrayed. [Paranoia does not become you .. you have to trust someone sometime .. try it sometime, it actually works. The only people who always fear betrayal are betrayers. A wary eye is always useful, but paranoia is silly.]
 
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perfectgeneral    RE:Paranoia does not become you - DA   3/7/2006 10:51:42 PM
Ignore MF, Darth, you've got betreyal written right through you like a candy cane. ;)
 
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JTR~~    The EF is very much a BVR fighter   5/13/2010 12:50:09 PM

The Maneuverability is about the same, plus the Super Hornet is better in BVR mission than the EF.


This was one of its main design prerogatives, its speed and agility benefit it not only in WVR combat but aid it immensely in BVR combat, hence why the F-22 is the only plane currently operational that can out do the EF in BVR that we know of. This may not be the case when the F-35 is rolled out, but by which time the tranche 3 EFs will be fully operational (all going well of course) which means that the EF will be taking a very big step up in the world, the previous tranche 1 and 2 EFs will also be upgraded to tranche 3 standard which will mean that EF and F-35 will not be too dissimilar especially after 2012.

 

On a further note some EF air forces such as the RAF have been extensively upgrading their EFs with various things such as extra sensors, conformal fuel tanks for extra hard points/missile carrying capability, and LITENING III targeting pods.

 

i would also say that the manoeuvrability of the super hornet although good is not up to the standard of the EF

 

 
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JTR~~    @T800m101   5/13/2010 1:19:07 PM

The Eurofighter is not a fifth generation aircraft, it is not on the same level as an F35 or an F-22.

The performance capabilities of an aircraft do not entirely define the generation bracket that an aircraft falls under, it is merely the time at which the aircraft was introduced/built combined with innovations that the aircraft has, if going by these terms then technically seeing as the EF was introduced in 2003-2004 it is more of a fifth generation fighter than a fourth generation fighter, hence why it is usually put in the 4.5 generation bracket, but by all rights depending on what people personally judge the boundaries of different generations of fighter are, I would consider the EF to be more like a fifth gen fighter, which from what i can gather seems to be what the RAF frequently refer to it as.

 
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JTR~~    again @T800m101   5/13/2010 1:28:08 PM

Well, the the F-35 has the AESA radar, the best radar in the world.

I'm not quite sure of it's avionics however i do know it will incorporate a data-link like that on the F-22.

just because AEAS is by virtue of being AESA instantly mean it is unreservedly superior to all other forms of radar out there, certainly AESA is very impressive but let us not forget that CAPTOR E will AESA but I believe it will be a hybrid (do not quote me on this, i need to carry out further research but reliable deatails are few and far between, and anything that is out there is sketchy at best), therefore taking the best of CAPTOR and AESA thereby putting them into one neat deadly little package.

 
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