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Subject: P-38 gun camera and maneuvers film!
45-Shooter    4/26/2013 4:58:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilArlZzLW-U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64O_6XXk-M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3nddCJbcdI Watch this! At 15:16 watch this plane roll! So many neat details you will not believe your eyes! Puts paid to all that BS about not being able to maneuver with agility. Also; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8LHjSHuls
 
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45-Shooter       4/26/2013 6:15:45 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilArlZzLW-U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64O_6XXk-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3nddCJbcdI Watch this! At 15:16 watch this plane roll! So many neat details you will not believe your eyes! Puts paid to all that BS about not being able to maneuver with agility. Also; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8LHjSHuls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmGSvn1Vek&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Watch this very close to see with your own two eyes the P effects of non-CR Props and wing mounted guns!!!
 
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Maratabc       4/27/2013 1:49:51 AM
Use asymmetric power.... and the pilot said that you had better NOT bleed speed or you wont escape. as to roll and reverse, THAT was slow, very slow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilArlZzLW-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64O_6XXk-M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3nddCJbcdI Watch this! At 15:16 watch this plane roll! So many neat details you will not believe your eyes! Puts paid to all that BS about not being able to maneuver with agility. Also; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8LHjSHuls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmGSvn1Vek&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Watch this very close to see with your own two eyes the P effects of non-CR Props and wing mounted guns!!!

 
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Jabberwocky       4/28/2013 6:09:34 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilArlZzLW-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64O_6XXk-M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3nddCJbcdI Watch this! At 15:16 watch this plane roll! So many neat details you will not believe your eyes! Puts paid to all that BS about not being able to maneuver with agility. Also; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8LHjSHuls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmGSvn1Vek&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Watch this very close to see with your own two eyes the P effects of non-CR Props and wing mounted guns!!!
 
And at 15: 27: "Though not as maneoverable as smaller fighters, the P-38 can hold its own". 
 
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45-Shooter    Are you blind, or can't you tell time?   4/30/2013 3:16:15 PM

Use asymmetric power.... and the pilot said that you had better NOT bleed speed or you wont escape. as to roll and reverse, THAT was slow, very slow. Are you blind, or is it that you can not tell time on a digital read out, or you are ignorant what 90-180-270 degrees of roll look like? Did you watch the third film to ~15:16 and count One-one-thousand as the plane rolled about 270 degrees from level flight at 275 MPH/Knots, I can not remember which right now, but in either case it is three to five times quicker than any early/war time Spitfire, even the much ballyhooed Mk-XIV! Tiny fractions of A SINGLE second to roll 90 degrees and you think that is slow, very slow? AND it was at 275 MPH or Knots and it did not have the powered ailerons!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilArlZzLW-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64O_6XXk-M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3nddCJbcdI Watch this! At 15:16 watch this plane roll! So many neat details you will not believe your eyes! Puts paid to all that BS about not being able to maneuver with agility. Also; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8LHjSHuls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmGSvn1Vek&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Watch this very close to see with your own two eyes the P effects of non-CR Props and wing mounted guns!!!



 
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45-Shooter    Are you blind, or can't you tell time?   4/30/2013 3:32:41 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilArlZzLW-U
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64O_6XXk-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3nddCJbcdI Watch this! At 15:16 watch this plane roll! So many neat details you will not believe your eyes! Puts paid to all that BS about not being able to maneuver with agility. Also; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8LHjSHuls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmGSvn1Vek&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Watch this very close to see with your own two eyes the P effects of non-CR Props and wing mounted guns!!!
 
And at 15: 27: "Though not as maneoverable as smaller fighters, the P-38 can hold its own". 
Note that maneuverability is one factor and agility is a completely different factor. Rate of roll is agility and wing & power loading is maneuverability. Some single engine fighters can out maneuver the P-38 in some parts of the envelope, but not others. All planes are like that, better at some things and worse at others. I have never ever stated that the Spit could not out maneuver the P-38 in some, probably most conditions. What I have stated is that under those other conditions, the Spitfire is a goner, and or that it does not matter because the attacker only needs to pull about 2/3rds of the Gs as the target to be able to shoot the target down!
Otherwise, how can you explain the fact that the Me-109 series of fighter planes were much more effective/successful than the Spitfire over the entire course of the war?

 
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Maratabc       4/30/2013 10:41:05 PM
Because the BF-109 wasn't, fantasist. The Luftwaffe LOST.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilArlZzLW-U


 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64O_6XXk-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3nddCJbcdI Watch this! At 15:16 watch this plane roll! So many neat details you will not believe your eyes! Puts paid to all that BS about not being able to maneuver with agility. Also; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8LHjSHuls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmGSvn1Vek&NR=1&feature=fvwp


Watch this very close to see with your own two eyes the P effects of non-CR Props and wing mounted guns!!!
 
And at 15: 27: "Though not as maneoverable as smaller fighters, the P-38 can hold its own". 
Note that maneuverability is one factor and agility is a completely different factor. Rate of roll is agility and wing & power loading is maneuverability. Some single engine fighters can out maneuver the P-38 in some parts of the envelope, but not others. All planes are like that, better at some things and worse at others. I have never ever stated that the Spit could not out maneuver the P-38 in some, probably most conditions. What I have stated is that under those other conditions, the Spitfire is a goner, and or that it does not matter because the attacker only needs to pull about 2/3rds of the Gs as the target to be able to shoot thetarget down!
Otherwise, how can you explain the fact that the Me-109 series of fighter planes were much more effective/successful than the Spitfire over the entire course of the war?


 
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oldbutnotwise       5/2/2013 3:14:22 PM

Use asymmetric power.... and the pilot said that you had better NOT bleed speed or you wont escape. as to roll and reverse, THAT was slow, very slow. Are you blind, or is it that you can not tell time on a digital read out, or you are ignorant what 90-180-270 degrees of roll look like? Did you watch the third film to ~15:16 and count One-one-thousand as the plane rolled about 270 degrees from level flight at 275 MPH/Knots
 
go back and look at that roll, its not even stressing the pilot, its little more than 1g and with little force on the control
its not combat its air display and is no way that pilot is going to stress the airframe of a warbird, they are all flow well within the limits (its not like the air racers)
(oh about 4 seconds for a 360 roll which I what that was is slow and how do you now what the speed was?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tPVBBp3e1A
at 4 minutes a spit rolls in the same time as yours, but as we dont know the speeds it means nothing


I can not remember which right now, but in either case it is three to five times quicker than any early/war time Spitfire, even the much ballyhooed Mk-XIV!
as the p38 was significantly slower in roll than any Spit and was never 3 to 5 times quicker than any fighter of the era let alone a Spit, a  spitfire was not, as you claim the slowest rolling fighter, it was quicker than a 109, a P40, a P39, P51b, a Zero, p38, and in fact was the quickest rolling fighter until the arrival of the FW190 so another one of your pet theory bites the dust

Tiny fractions of A SINGLE second to roll 90 degrees and you think that is slow, very slow? AND it was at 275 MPH or Knots and it did not have the powered ailerons!

it is amazing how you can tell the speed without any visual clues

 
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45-Shooter       5/8/2013 10:53:51 PM

Are you blind, or is it that you can not tell time on a digital read out, or you are ignorant what 90-180-270 degrees of roll look like? Did you watch the third film to ~15:16 and count One-one-thousand as the plane rolled about 270 degrees from level flight at 275 MPH/Knots
 
go back and look at that roll, its not even stressing the pilot, its little more than 1g and with little force on the control
its not combat its air display and is no way that pilot is going to stress the airframe of a warbird, they are all flow well within the limits (its not like the air racers)
(oh about 4 seconds for a 360 roll which I what that was is slow and how do you now what the speed was?)Because the pilot stated same as he did it! And you are right, it was about four seconds, or by my count slightly less, but even four seconds is still 90 degrees per second at over 300 MPH! And it was not even a hydraulic powered aileron plane! Look at the pictures!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tPVBBp3e1A
at 4 minutes a spit rolls in the same time as yours, but as we dont know the speeds it means nothing It is almost as quick, but it is only going about 200 MPH! And it is easy to tell, if you have watched as many air shows as I have. But here is how you can figure it out for yourself; First count the angle subtended by the plane in the first frame of the roll, count pixels if you have to, then compute the range from that angle and the known dimensions of the plane. Do the same at the end of the roll. Use the difference between first and last frame in the length of the picture of the fixed length of the plane to compute the angle covered as the plane flew by. That angle when combined with the known range is the distance the plane flies. Given the time it takes the plane to cross the field of vision, it is close and slow! not more than 200 MPH in my experience, but since I know you will try to BS your way out of those facts, show your calcs to prove me wrong!
 
I can not remember which right now, but in either case it is three to five times quicker than any early/war time Spitfire, even the much ballyhooed Mk-XIV!
as the p38 was significantly slower in roll than any Spit and was never 3 to 5 times quicker than any fighter of the era let alone a Spit, a  spitfire was not, as you claim the slowest rolling fighter, it was quicker than a 109, a P40, a P39, P51b, a Zero, p38, and in fact was the quickest rolling fighter until the arrival of the FW190 so another one of your pet theory bites the dust
It all depends on the speed at which you start the clock. A slow speeds, the Spit is very much quicker than the P-38! I have never disputed that! It is at speeds OVER 300 MPH where I stake my claim! And at those speeds where the Spit's rate of roll has fallen dramatically that the P-38 which losses much less of it's rate of roll with speed, not only catches, but surpasses the Spit, not even counting the hydraulic powered ailerons! The wing box is several times stiffer and the lever arm of the hinged surface is much shorter for the P-38.
 

Tiny fractions of A SINGLE second to roll 90 degrees and you think that is slow, very slow? AND it was at 275 MPH or Knots and it did not have the powered ailerons!
it is amazing how you can tell the speed without any visual clues
Not if you listen to the pilot state the airspeed! You have to have the sound turned on to listen! Try it some time!

 




 
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45-Shooter       5/8/2013 11:06:20 PM
Otherwise, how can you explain the fact that the Me-109 series of fighter planes were much more effective/successful than the Spitfire over the entire course of the war?
Just because the Germans lost the war, does not change the fact that Me-109s shot down more planes than the entire RAF and Russian AF combined. OR, more planes than the USAAF too. But then you would have to be very closed minded to think that was all there was to it. America built over 100,000 Fighter planes during the war. (And another 100 thousand bombers too!) Germany, a little over half that many. The Reds, less than the Germans and the Brits less than the Ruskies.
If absolute performance was so critical to success, why did all the major National AFs keep planes like the Hurricane and P-40 in production for so long? Did they mean to provide a Target rich environment?


 
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45-Shooter       7/10/2013 11:02:57 PM

Use asymmetric power.... Are you blind, or is it that you can not tell time on a digital read out, or you are ignorant what 90-180-270 degrees of roll look like? Did you watch the third film to ~15:16 and count One-one-thousand as the plane rolled about 270 degrees from level flight at 275 MPH/Knots
 
go back and look at that roll, its not even stressing the pilot, its little more than 1g and with little force on the control
its not combat its air display (oh about 4 seconds for a 360 roll which I what that was is slow and how do you now what the speed was? Listen to the announcer during the show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tPVBBp3e1A
at 4 minutes a spit rolls in the same time as yours, but as we dont know the speeds it means nothing Well, yes it does mean something, the roll is not a high stress maneuver. Listen to the announcer and count 1-1000, 2-1000, 3-1000, Etc...
I can not remember which right now, but in either case it is three to five times quicker than any early/war time Spitfire, even the much ballyhooed Mk-XIV!
as the p38 was significantly slower in roll than any Spit and was never 3 to 5 times quicker than any fighter of the era let alone a Spit, a  spitfire was not, as you claim the slowest rolling fighter, Well actually, it was either the worst, or second worst depending on the speed at the start of the maneuver. it was quicker than a 109, Not true! a P40, Not true. a P39, P51b, a Zero, p38, All not true. and in fact was the quickest rolling fighter until the arrival of the FW190 Not even close to being true! Read the history of the Spiteful and why they changed the wing planform! Tiny fractions of A SINGLE second to roll 90 degrees and you think that is slow, very slow? AND it was at 275 MPH or Knots and it did not have the powered ailerons!
it is amazing how you can tell the speed without any visual clues
Try listening to the pilot's voice and the announcer!

 


 
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