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Subject: Taliban Troubled By Timing
SYSOP    2/19/2015 6:30:39 AM
 
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HR    Seems they could use a Scorpion jet!   2/19/2015 1:27:24 PM
Let us take this thread to a 100!
 
See Keffler come over and argue with out end!
 
 
 
 
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Reactive       2/19/2015 1:52:52 PM
As demonstrated above, your purpose here is simply to bait and troll, you are a useless detriment to this board as you demonstrate time and again. 
 
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HR    Reactive   2/19/2015 2:04:06 PM
Not with you. If you want to post something interesting that would be fine.
 
I would like to say that almost any aircraft is faster than that helicopter and I do have some ideas about that. But that would be a rational discussion... what I expect from Keffler are things like "cretin", "Stupid", "Belgian", etc. Things that you and me have read before from him. 
 
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Nate Dog    HR   2/19/2015 6:26:14 PM
Either post something relevant or piss off. 
You really do bring nothing to these discussions when all you do is troll.
You don't bring company, simply take away solitude.
 
On topic.
Shame the white house vetoed sales of the 64E to Israel. They sound a useful bit of kit. Concurrently selling them to UAE and the Saudis, smacks of some serious anti-Israel bias on the part of the white house. Why am i being so polite?
Obama that… lovely example of humanity.
This interconnectivity with drones operating under its control, i think, would be the biggest leap froward. The area covered by each Helo is exponentially larger, allowing to do more with less. 
I think Israel embarked on its own upgrade program after the veto. Not sure how far ranging it is. Can't imagine it'll equal this in scope.  
 
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gandalf    Funny, I was thinking the same thing   2/19/2015 7:39:37 PM
Apache 64E / A-10 / other
 
Has anyone asked the ground forces about the utility of fixed wing air support vs rotary wing?  Which would they prefer when evaluated versus time to arrive at target, duration over target, and most commonly required kind of fire (light gun, cannon, rocket, guided missile?)
 
The Scorpion makes sense from a cost to operate in a low threat environment point of view, but when will it be operational?  I would actually suggest rushing a couple prototypes to the field to validate the utility (and help market it), but that would seem to still be months away.  Like the French did with their Gowind, build it and they (the buyers) will come.
 
Now, as for Keppler, I have noticed a tendency for discussions to get heated around him, but there is a confrontational tone about his posts that reminds me more of Fox News than of other less opinionated comedy-dramas.  I usually skip the op-ed back and forth and just try to find the facts (and untruths) being hurled about.
 
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Nate Dog    Hush Child   2/20/2015 12:07:24 AM
Adults are speaking.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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HR    Nate Dog   2/20/2015 9:32:59 AM
I am proud of what you just posted.
 
If you post something similar when Keffler starts with his insults again then I will really-really be proud of you.
 
But if you do not... then do not complain about me. 
 
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HR    Gandalf   2/20/2015 9:39:13 AM
Bingo!
 
That is the exact point that needs to be made. With higher speed, longer loiter times, far better payloads, some of them can operate from make shift runways and most important a much higher survivability than any helicopter had or ever will have a fix wing option makes a lot of sense.
 
Number one reason that the Army does not have a fix wing option right now is the lobbying of the Helicopter pilots with in the service. They have become an entrenched constituency like any other and will fight that.
 
This is similar to the crazy way the Captains in the Navy fought (and lost) the argument of the LCS. Had you left it to them they would be chasing smugglers with nuclear armed cruisers.
 
Some one in Army aviation needs to push for and fight a hell of a battle to get some rugged fix wing aircrafts back on their inventory. 
 
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joe6pack       2/20/2015 10:23:29 AM
"Number one reason that the Army does not have a fix wing option right now is the lobbying of the Helicopter pilots with in the service. "
 
 Actually, that I'm pretty sure that would be the "Key West Agreement" circa 1948..  The Army (foolishly in my opinion) handed over the tactical aircraft role to the Air Force.  The Army sort of skirts the agreement with helicopters (rotary wing) versus fixed wing..
 
Not sure where you get the helicopter lobby within the army stuff...
 
That said, I suspect the Apache crowd may have some bonus points in the fact they are under the control of the Army.. and the Army still doesn't entirely trust the Air Force not to #&^@( things up.. or give short shrift to ground support.
 
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joe6pack       2/20/2015 10:35:07 AM
"Which would they prefer when evaluated versus time to arrive at target, duration over target, and most commonly required kind of fire.."
 
It would depend on the type of fight.  Keeping in mind that the A-10 and the Apache were built with the idea of needing to stop the red horde pouring through the Fulda Gap...  That's not to say we won't have to revisit that type of scenario at some point..
 
My 2 cents is that we currently have a reasonable mix of GOOD options.  I'm not keen on the Air Force continually trying to ditch the A-10.. and not offering a dedicated ground support alternative...  but beyond that.. and given the finite resources available.. I don't think this is an area that needs fixing at the moment.
 
 
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