Some people should think about how much military hardware could they sell to Arab Gulf countries if they sign treaty with Iran. They could, most likely, kiss those sales goodbye.

 

The Rafale is battle tested? If you call flying no fly zone CAPS, shooting down a landing unarmed training aircraft, unable to bomb without assistance from close escort M2000s and needing help from nearby Italian wild weasel aircraft (F-16s) when being locked up by SAMs?

 

The Indians will get good aircraft, after they PAY for all the upgrades that Qatar and Egypt put a down payment on that the French gov't could not pay in the rollout in the 130 bare bones models they have.  

 

To be realistic, the Rafale is where the F-15 and F-16 was in 1980 and the original Mirages were in 1966.    

 

A fighting air force (Israel's) had to work the bugs out and make the reputations of those planes.  

 

And it will be Israel (probably) who will be Indian hired to wrangle the Rafale into a serviceable Indian air force platform (this to make it possible for the plane's avionics to use American and Russian weapons in India's inventory if this is a way to backdoor the Rafale in as India's main striker under the MMC contract, now that the Sukhois are showing Mig disease.)     

 

 

In all honesty, (?????) You should just pick any aviation forum that is credible and read (this forum for example has tonnes of info on the Rafale, much WHICH I SUPPLIED RECENTLY.)

 

I don't want to waste time with you, because you just aren't worth it.   

The Indians will get good aircraft, after they PAY for all the upgrades that Qatar and Egypt put a down payment on that the French gov't could not pay in the rollout in the 130 bare bones models they have.  

 Egypt is getting the exact same configuration as AdlA. Qatar, from what I'vre read and the timetable, will too (though then it will most probably be the F3R standard currently in development and testing). 130 bare bones models ? Seriously, again. This isn't the late 90s any more, the F1 standard doesn't exist any more. Every Rafale in operational service belong to the F3 standard, which is fully multirole (and equipped with AESA for the latest builds).
What the heck is your definition of "bare bones" ? 

To be realistic, the Rafale is where the F-15 and F-16 was in 1980 and the original Mirages were in 1966.    

 

A fighting air force (Israel's) had to work the bugs out and make the reputations of those planes.  

 AdlA and MN have been doing that already. Sure, nobody's been doing a lot of actual high intensity A2A war in the last decades. Including the US of A.

And it will be Israel (probably) who will be Indian hired to wrangle the Rafale into a serviceable Indian air force platform (this to make it possible for the plane's avionics to use American and Russian weapons in India's inventory if this is a way to backdoor the Rafale in as India's main striker under the MMC contract, now that the Sukhois are showing Mig disease.)     

 Why would they ? No Israeli involvement was needed to make the Indian M2Ks war ready during Kargil War. And it wasn't the Israelis chosen by India to upgrade those same Mirages. 

Not even taking into consideration that part of Rafale's appeal is its non-American weaponry (aside from the Paveway family). 

 

Don't forget, Rafael has been down this road before with India, unless theres a pens nib dipped in the blood of a Ghandi scion signed in triplicate, i wouldn't be banking on any money coming from anything India says.

 

Cut rate rafael's in the French AF, references the lack of upgrades pushed through onto domestic French machines. Bare bones, because they ran out of armaments flying half a dozen sorties a day in Libya for 2 weeks before they reduced to dropping iron dumb bombs.

 

No A2A combat testing, sure, no ones been fighting CAP since the Gulf 1, maybe the Israelis slightly later. But the least you can say is that that did give us combat proved planes. All the precision strike missions flown by both US and Israeli forces since then only went to re-enforce the capabilities of the F16's and F15's.

 

Its been discussed before, that the newest crop of F-16's with conformal tanks are very much an equivalent of the Rafaels as regards range. Software, i'd rather trust the US/Israeli developed stuff. Already proven LINK16, etc.. Radar equivalent. Reliability, airframe longevity, etc... PARTS! SPARES! Rafael haven't yet hit 200 planes off the production line in nearly 20 years. F-16's bumping 4000, or they may have blown past that a long time ago, need to check my figures. 

If I'm a business, on purely a numbers game....... Wouldn't touch the Rafael's with a 10 foot poll. 

 

Price. $120 million a plane. Either be smart, spend half as much on an F16I or wait a few years (even at full production, Rafael deliveries are in the 2020's) and spend the same and buy an F35. One which has all the teething problems discovered by the fighting air forces and sorted.

I think its a stupid buy. 

Moving away from US supplied weapons i get. But France is just as whoreish as US when it comes to foreign policy. They sell to those they agree to sell to, they don't to those they dont.

Ask Russia what it thinks of French deliveries....

 

 

 

Das Kardinal.... you I will answer because you need to be answered.  

 

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The Indians will get good aircraft, after they PAY for all the upgrades that Qatar and Egypt put a down payment on that the French gov't could not pay in the rollout in the 130 bare bones models they have.  

 Egypt is getting the exact same configuration as AdlA. Qatar, from what I'vre read and the timetable, will too (though then it will most probably be the F3R standard currently in development and testing). 130 bare bones models ? Seriously, again. This isn't the late 90s any more, the F1 standard doesn't exist any more. Every Rafale in operational service belong to the F3 standard, which is fully multirole (and equipped with AESA for the latest builds).

 

What the heck is your definition of "bare bones" ? 

No better than the targeting capabilities of the F-16 Block 150 CU which by current American standards is bare bones. 
. 

To be realistic, the Rafale is where the F-15 and F-16 was in 1980 and the original Mirages were in 1966. A fighting air force (Israel's) had to work the bugs out and make the reputations of those planes.  

 AdlA and MN have been doing that already. Sure, nobody's been doing a lot of actual high intensity A2A war in the last decades. Including the US of A.

I beg your pardon? What isd your definition of a fighting air force? One that engages in colonial show the flag and participates in 'joint operations'?   Nobody has fought as many air campaigns (including the PRESENT ongoing ones in Yemen, Iraq, and Afghanistan) as the USAF. Nobody since 1988 has fought harder more continuously against so many different heavily armed air enemies in the air (Have you paid attention to what's going on in EAST AFRICA right now with Africom?) and beaten them all. Even the so called French actions (while professionally flown) have been nowhere near as strenuous logistically or operationally. With the exception of the Gold Coast,there hasn't been a 'French air campaign' (Libya and Mali and Senegal) where the USAF was not there as big brother to watch out for the AdA.      

 

And it will be Israel (probably) who will be Indian hired to wrangle the Rafale into a serviceable Indian air force platform (this to make it possible for the plane's avionics to use American and Russian weapons in India's inventory if this is a way to backdoor the Rafale in as India's main striker under the MMC contract, now that the Sukhois are showing Mig disease.)     

 Why would they ? No Israeli involvement was needed to make the Indian M2Ks war ready during Kargil War. And it wasn't the Israelis chosen by India to upgrade those same Mirages. 

 

If you read what the Indians say about the M2000s along with their other aircraft, you wouldn't have tried to claim that as a success.    

As a matter of fact ----Kargil...  

 

 The IAF in 1999 had just a handful of laser-guided bombs and it didn't have the kit to ensure that the bombs would hit high-altitude targets with pin-point precision. Using a combination of modified laser-guided bombs (and unguided 'dumb bombs') mated to hastily-procured Israeli Litening laser targeting pods, the IAF's Mirages became instruments of death. Point 5140, Tololing, Tiger Hill and a major re-supply base in the Batalik sector were destroyed, cutting off forward deployed Pakistani forces.

 

The laser guided bombs were American, the Litening pod IS AMERICAN , but the work was done by ISRAELIS.    

 

Not even taking into consideration that part of Rafale's appeal is its non-American weaponry (aside from the Paveway family).  

 

The weaponry is limited. the M2000 was sold with French weaponry but in the end the Indians went AMERICAN.  

See that example above and see why you are in error, Das Kardinal. 

 

  

Keffler, your bad faith, ignorance and bitterness are so sweet to my ears...

 

 i can just imagine your face learning all these "stupid" catastrophic bad faith... Send a photo nexxt time while eating your hat!