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Subject: Chinese Sub Launched ASAT
Softwar    1/18/2008 8:46:11 AM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080118/NATION04/696008582/1008 Submarine ASAT Pentagon officials are increasingly worried that China's military is advancing its clandestine anti-satellite (ASAT) weapons program by building a submarine-launched direct-ascent missile system. New information indicates the secret ASAT program, which Chinese leaders refused to discuss in recent meetings with visiting U.S. military leaders, will involve a space-capable ASAT warhead for the new JL-2 submarine-launched ballistic missile. The new missile is being readied for China's new ballistic missile submarine, called the Jin-class, or Type 094. The ASAT submarine will provide the ultimate in stealth weapons and could cripple U.S. satellites. The reports about submarine ASAT basing followed comments by Gen. James E. Cartwright, the former U.S. Strategic Command commander and current vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who told Congress last year the U.S. military is prepared to use conventional missile strikes on land-based Chinese ASAT launchers if Beijing began shooting down U.S. satellites. China successfully tested a direct-ascent ASAT missile from a mobile ground-based launcher a year ago, sending thousands of pieces of debris from a destroyed weather satellite into low Earth orbit and threatening U.S. satellites and others. The new information bolsters theoretical writings by Chinese military officials, which were disclosed in a report to Congress last year by Michael Pillsbury, a former Reagan administration defense official and specialist on China. Mr. Pillsbury stated in his report, "An Assessment of China's Anti-Satellite and Space Warfare Programs," that China's sea-based and submarine-based ASAT were mentioned in 2004 by Liu Huanyu of the Dalian Naval Academy. "Nuclear submarines are not only well concealed but can sail for a long period of time," Mr. Liu said. "By deploying just a few anti-satellite nuclear submarines in the ocean, one can seriously threaten the entire military space system of the enemy."
 
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Herald12345    That capability.   1/18/2008 10:31:27 AM
requires massive positive ground control telemetry. You can't do that at sea without some kind of massive noise footprint from a shore station. Even when the bandits launched their landbased ASAT, during the booster climb the telemetry was a clear footprint. One would hope we can backtrack fast enough to give the bastards a kinetic surprise when they attack our birds.

We may not get the subs right away, but we WILL get the guidance and command stations.

I hope you are reading this bandits. Launch an ASAT that attacks a US bird and YOU personally responsible for guiding the merge will be killed in the counterforce.

Herald.


 
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Softwar       1/18/2008 12:12:16 PM
It is also worth noting that any US SSN trailing the PLA boomer that spies an SLBM launch is likely to assume that its a live nuclear shot heading to the USA.  Thus, it is going to take out the boomer.. period - the end.  We can replace satellites but they have a very finite number of boomer subs.  .
 
If I were a PLA commander with this assignment - I'd make sure I have good life insurance.
 
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displacedjim       1/18/2008 12:54:18 PM

It is also worth noting that any US SSN trailing the PLA boomer that spies an SLBM launch is likely to assume that its a live nuclear shot heading to the USA.  Thus, it is going to take out the boomer.. period - the end.  We can replace satellites but they have a very finite number of boomer subs.  .

 

If I were a PLA commander with this assignment - I'd make sure I have good life insurance.



I have great difficulty believing in an American SSN trailing a Chinese SSBN (I suppose I could stop right there for at least the next few years, but I digress) having standing orders that authorized shooting the Chinese sub merely because it launched one or even all its missiles--unless the U.S. and China were already in a state of war or very close to it.
 
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commie       1/18/2008 7:18:22 PM
Washington Times? I am glad you have a source as credible as FOX News. And Herald, Bright your ICBMs on.
 
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VelocityVector       1/18/2008 8:04:20 PM

Might not be a terrible idea to add redundancy in the form of airships/aerostats and high altitude loiterers all equipped with broadband.  We need the traffic support anyway.

v^2

 
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Blue Seadragon       1/21/2008 2:20:22 AM




It is also worth noting that any US SSN trailing the PLA boomer that spies an SLBM launch is likely to assume that its a live nuclear shot heading to the USA.  Thus, it is going to take out the boomer.. period - the end.  We can replace satellites but they have a very finite number of boomer subs.  .



 



If I were a PLA commander with this assignment - I'd make sure I have good life insurance.





I have great difficulty believing in an American SSN trailing a Chinese SSBN (I suppose I could stop right there for at least the next few years, but I digress) having standing orders that authorized shooting the Chinese sub merely because it launched one or even all its missiles--unless the U.S. and China were already in a state of war or very close to it.


We just showed how spinless we are when a Chinese sub and missile destroyer challenged passage of the Taiwan Strait for 28 hours.  Ordering us not to transit on pain of being engaged, we dithered - and did anything but shoot.  When Lybia did the same thing (with two Koni class missile frigates) both were flaming wreaks in a few minutes.  That is the law - a carrier at sea does not stop for anything - and the right of nonbellegerent passage is not to be blocked.
 
Not to mention that we lack the subs it takes - and don't forward deploy enough of them.  Subs have lots of jobs - and today Cold War type missions are exceptional rather than normal.  Subs also have problems with communications - and can't get political permission to shoot easily - even if political spine to shoot existed - which I profoundly doubt.
 
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Herald12345       1/24/2008 4:26:03 PM

Washington Times? I am glad you have a source as credible as FOX News. And Herald, Bright your ICBMs on.
Ask and you shell receive, cretin.

Unlike Chicom rockets, OURS  work as designed.

Herald
 
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Herald12345       1/24/2008 4:49:26 PM




It is also worth noting that any US SSN trailing the PLA boomer that spies an SLBM launch is likely to assume that its a live nuclear shot heading to the USA.  Thus, it is going to take out the boomer.. period - the end.  We can replace satellites but they have a very finite number of boomer subs.  .



 



If I were a PLA commander with this assignment - I'd make sure I have good life insurance.





I have great difficulty believing in an American SSN trailing a Chinese SSBN (I suppose I could stop right there for at least the next few years, but I digress) having standing orders that authorized shooting the Chinese sub merely because it launched one or even all its missiles--unless the U.S. and China were already in a state of war or very close to it.
If a hostile power's  boomer starts rippling off its load in international waters, DJ; standing orders are to KILL IT IMMEDIATELY.

The diplomats can sort the repercussions out later if it went rogue. SLBM salvo launch has only ONE meaning.

Herald
 
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displacedjim       1/24/2008 6:14:49 PM





I have great difficulty believing in an American SSN trailing a Chinese SSBN (I suppose I could stop right there for at least the next few years, but I digress) having standing orders that authorized shooting the Chinese sub merely because it launched one or even all its missiles--unless the U.S. and China were already in a state of war or very close to it.


If a hostile power's  boomer starts rippling off its load in international waters, DJ; standing orders are to KILL IT IMMEDIATELY.

The diplomats can sort the repercussions out later if it went rogue. SLBM salvo launch has only ONE meaning.

Herald


 
I still have great difficulty believing that's true if during a time of no increased watchfulness, tension, etc.  I'm not saying I would object, just that it sounds similar to claims that we will "launch on warning" of incoming RVs as opposed to waiting until we confirm that RVs are actually hitting us, which I also have great difficulty believing.
 
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