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Subject: China's new jumbo jet company
Nanheyangrouchuan    5/11/2008 4:33:40 PM
This is what they are doing with some of their forex reserves... The first planes will be hybrids of Boeing and Airbus for sale to poorer countries, and expect some facilities to be set up in the EU and US to siphon technology and even engineers and specialized blue collar people. "http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-05/11/content_8144727.htm" China's jumbo passenger aircraft company established in Shanghai 2008-05-11 10:55:28 Print SHANGHAI, May 11 (Xinhua) -- China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company, which was a major part of the nation's large jet program, was officially inaugurated in Shanghai on Sunday. Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang said at the inauguration ceremony that the large jet program was of significance to improve China's independent innovation capabilities and to meet the rapidly expanding civil aviation market at home. Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang (L) and Shanghai Party Chief Yu Zhengsheng (R) unveil the plaque for China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company at the inauguration ceremony in Shanghai, east China, May 11, 2008. China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company, which was a major part of the nation's large jet program, was officially inaugurated in Shanghai on Sunday. Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang (L) and Shanghai Party Chief Yu Zhengsheng (R) unveil the plaque for China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company at the inauguration ceremony in Shanghai, east China, May 11, 2008. China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company, which was a major part of the nation's large jet program, was officially inaugurated in Shanghai on Sunday. (Xinhua Photo) Photo Gallery>>> For the program, China should actively import sophisticated technologies, and at the same time, make breakthroughs in core technologies and achieve related independent intellectual property rights, according to Zhang. The newly established company, named Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China Ltd. (CACC), will be responsible for researching, developing, manufacturing and marketing the homegrown large passenger aircraft. Domestic airline companies, foreign suppliers, and representatives from international aviation producers including Boeing and Airbus attended the inauguration ceremony. The CACC has a registered capital of 19 billion yuan (2.7 billion U.S. dollars). The State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission alone invested 6 billion yuan, becoming the biggest shareholder. The inauguration ceremony of China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company is held in Shanghai, east China, May 11, 2008. The inauguration ceremony of China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company is held in Shanghai, east China, May 11, 2008. (Xinhua Photo) Photo Gallery>>> Shareholders of the new company also include China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I), the country's largest aircraft producer, and China Aviation Industry Corporation II (AVIC II). Zhang Qingwei, minister of then State Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense, was appointed the board chairman. Jin Zhuanglong, the company's general manager, told Xinhua that "It is too early to set a timetable or make development strategy," adding that it will take a long time for the company to train talents and do research. "Since large aircraft cannot be made in one or two days, CACC will pose no threat to large jet-makers like Boeing and Airbus," Jin said. Jin added that China is to make full use of worldwide resources to develop the aircraft, and welcomes cooperation from foreign companies. According to Jin, CACC's goals within the first few years include finishing delivery and maiden flight of ARJ21 aircraft, establishing an operating system and training talents. Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing Factory and the First Aircraft Institute of AVIC I, which participated in producing the country's first homegrown regional jet ARJ21-700, joined the newly established CACC. Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang (3rd L), Shanghai Party Chief Yu Zhengsheng (3rd R) and Minister of Science and Technology Wan Gang (R) attend the inauguration ceremony of China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company in Shanghai, east China, May 11, 2008. Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang (3rd L), Shanghai Party Chief Yu Zhengsheng (3rd R) and Minister of Science and Technology Wan Gang (R) attend the inauguration ceremony of China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company in Shanghai, east China, May 11, 2008. (Xinhua Photo) Photo Gallery>>> ARJ21-700 rolled off the production line in Shanghai last December, and will start its maiden flight in upcoming Autumn. Establishment of CACC was approved in February 2007 by the State Council, China's Cabinet. This was to make the country capable of building aircraft with a take-off weight of more than 100 tonnes,
 
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xylene       5/12/2008 1:49:51 PM
LOL the free traders and pro-China business lobby thought China would be content making cheap trinkets and children's toys. We sell them jets and they take em apart and figure how we built them. Now they will soon be cranking out  jets like they are cranking out ships. My prediction is Boeing and Airbus will be near bankrupcy in 10 years.  They will soon be making satellites too. Keep the trade barriers down , keep letting them flood our markets, keep allowing them to reduce our employment and get rich in the process. We may as well start learning to speak Mandarin and learn the Chinese anthem since that will be who signs our paychecks in the future. Just real sad that the sell-outs will be successful bringing this nation down without firing a single shot.. Capitalism triumphed over Democracy.
 
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Wicked Chinchilla       5/12/2008 3:27:55 PM
It takes a whole lot of knowledge and expertise to make a jumbo jet, especially one thats safe enough for people to actually want to get on. 
 
Just look at the troubles with the A380 or Boeings new bird.  Those are two extremely experienced houses that didnt have to steal or reverse engineer everything.  This is interesting, but no where near panic time.  Freaking out about this and forseeing the end of Boeing and Airbus in 10 years is equivalent to talking about how the Chinese Navy will have carrier expertise matching the U.S. Navy's in the same time frame: its not going to happen.
 
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xylene       5/12/2008 4:54:27 PM
I just won't assume they will never figure out how to build a jet liner. There are smart people in China  and the fact they have models to take apart will only accelerate the process when they will be building quality jets cheaper and at less cost than Boeing or Airbus. In 10 years Boeing and Airbus will be begging bowl in hand scrapping for any military contracts it can garner. China will be the main builder of  civilian jumbo jets. Happened in shipping, will happen in aviation too.
 
We are already seeing US airlines being squezzed out of the global market, but good riddence. The lousy service that US airlines provide compared to foriegn airlines is shameful.
 
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Wicked Chinchilla       5/12/2008 7:15:07 PM
Considering that Boeing increased 5% market share in '07 and Airbus fell by 5% Im not sure where you are getting that U.S. Companies are getting shoved out.  

If you are referring to the A380 vs. the 747 then yes, the A380 is gaining.  The 747 is a legacy platform.  Its also a platform that is now making pure profit.  The A380 program needs to sell quite a bit of airframes to recoup the development costs.  Not to mention that when the Airbus conglomerate formed it was supposed to crush the Stateside opposition and that sure did not happen.  

In any case, I didn't say "China will never build a jumbo jet" but nice try.  All I said and implied was that for your scenario to take place is going to take MUCH longer than 10 years.  As it stands there is nothing holding Airbus or Boeing from doing the exact same thing we know that China is doing.  Experience can't be stolen.  Airbus and Boeing currently have it, China doesn't.

Also, Jumbo jets, or any large passenger aircraft are not rolls of steel, or even ships.  You are not going to have significant orders unless you have a proven well tested design with little problems and a good safety record.  Look at the advanced fighters China has turned out.  Safety is not one of their hallmarks.  Not to mention their problems with manufacturing a good jet engine.  

Could this company eventually defeat Boeing?  Sure, its POSSIBLE.  Is it likely soon?  Definitely not.  Is it likely at all? not very.  Besides, if Boeing falls than Airbus wouldn't be too far behind and the two would sooner merge than simply surrender to Chinese copies.  
 
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displacedjim       5/12/2008 7:44:03 PM
Of course China will some day/year/decade start making airliners.  As far as I'm concerned, it's not a matter of how soon, but what took them so long?  They bought 707s from Boeing over 35 years ago.  They bought 737s and 747s from Boeing over 20 years ago.  Sheesh!  Can't those noobs figure out how to build a transport in 20 years?  They've been operating hundreds of them for the last couple decades.  It's about fracking time that they manage in maybe five or ten more years to actually come up with a useful design.  I seriously doubt its eventual appearence will surprise or shock anyone, considering how ridiculously long it's taken them to do it.  I'd say if anything this is yet another data point showing how China will continue overall to lag behind us in developing new technology for the rest of my life at least.
 
 
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Wicked Chinchilla       5/12/2008 8:36:13 PM
Exactly.  They will be second-tier competitor, not a first tier replacement.  
 
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xylene       5/12/2008 9:42:51 PM
Yes, but corporatrions and the flying public follow the cheapest price, even if it is second tier. Boeing will be on the ropes in 10 years and flat bankrupt and out of business as a first tier manufacturer in 15 years, unless China buys them first.
 
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Claymore       5/13/2008 1:46:45 AM
They will be as successful as Soviet era airliners.

I would rather fly Aeroflot (Infact I did a round trip St. Pete to Moscow and back) than and Chinese tin can any time soon.

 
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