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Subject: Does israel have the best Air Force?
Worf_Israel    8/17/2003 7:15:10 AM
By what im told it is said Israel has the best trained air force in the world (i find it to be very true). it has been proven that the Israeli air force has taken on incredible odds when it comes to air force battle for example: when Israel attack the Iraq's nuclear facility, Israel sent 5 F-15 fighters to destroy the nuclear lab facility - after the f-15 cross to Iraq's air space 25 MG-22/23 (cant remember the MG number) were sent to destroy the F-15. NOT ONLY did the israel complete their mission they destroyed all 25 enemy aircraft without losing one of their own. even today it is CLEAR FACT that most US Air Force Tactics are tactics that were shown by the Israel - even today Israel has joined training with the USA (they don't talk about it) and the Israel pilots teach American pilots.(note:if you didn't know Israel and the UK has more joined training with the USA then any other country)
 
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Thomas    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force?   8/18/2003 1:56:16 AM
I would say the Israelies have probably the best air defence at the moment. Perhaps I should say piont air defence, as the country has no strategic depth.
 
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Couac_Attack    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force?   8/31/2003 2:45:29 PM
I dont know if it's true... Because, are you talking of the pilots training?? The power of the air force??? Now you said : " when Israel attack the Iraq's nuclear facility, Israel sent 5 F-15 fighters to destroy the nuclear lab facility - after the f-15 cross to Iraq's air space 25 MG-22/23 (cant remember the MG number) were sent to destroy the F-15. NOT ONLY did the israel complete their mission they destroyed all 25 enemy aircraft without losing one of their own. " Its certainly a very good point for the israeli air force but în a fight between mig 22/23 and F15, the pilot of the F 15 have a big advantage, and the Iraq's pilot are not in considered like " good pilots " . Im not american but i think the best air force of the world is still the american one. Now if you had more exemple you could maybe change my opinion.
 
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Thomas    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force?   9/3/2003 4:24:47 AM
Well I would think the operations against Syria and the Bekaa vally would be an example.
 
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t    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force? (Reply to Worf)   9/4/2003 2:49:05 PM
IMHO, the Israelis have the best air-to-air tactics but this is of declining importance with the increased sophistication of SAM's and BVR Missiles. The Israelis also excel in the Strike role, but again, smart bombs take a certain amount of the skill out of this area. If you want the whole package, you have to say that the US has the best Air Force(s). When was the last time that a US field army came under air attack? 1943? That statistic speaks volumes.
 
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Crusader    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force? Couac_Attack   9/5/2003 11:30:07 AM
>>When was the last time that a *US field army* came under air attack? << So we had an Army secretly hidden in the WTC?
 
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WinsettZ    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force? Couac_Attack   9/7/2003 5:01:34 PM
Bah, nobody would have built a air defense in New York before 9/11. It's NIMBY syndrome. Nobody wants to see Humvees with Stingers on them driving around...lots of people would have been rioting and posting on their blogs about a military dictatorship would occur. But the discussion about American air superiority is correct. Since WW2 America has pretty much owned its skies. So our ground ADA has become crappy out of complacency. That is the direct product of our overwhelming air superiority. Back to Israel: Israel's got a good AF for its adjacent neighbors. The deep-strike in Osirak is a decent example, but the USAF has its own...flying into Baghdad when they lit up the sky like a Fourth of July show, dropping stealth bombs onto targets and such. The USAF still has the best shebang in the world. Israelis have more experience, but we have the best training facilities, the most pilots, the best pilots, the best skilled maintainence and support guys and top-notch hardware/software. Israel gets our exports...which are pretty good, but not exactly the whole cookie jar.
 
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Thomas    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force? WinsettZ   9/8/2003 1:57:02 AM
Agreed. The Israelies have the best cookie jar, but the US has the biggest.
 
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jacques    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force?   9/19/2003 10:00:56 PM
USAF is the best because of its size and qualties of its men and materials but French Air Force is better when it come to men and materials (some equiptments France simply doesn't have like have AWAC made in France and etc.). Because of the enormous size of the USAF it still stronger than the Armee de L'air.
 
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Dancing Johnny    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force?   9/25/2003 5:13:29 PM
Does anyone have a better accounting of the Iraqi incedent? My understanding is that F-15's flew cover, while F-16's (four of them) droped 2 2000lb bombs each, taking out the reactor. I also understand that there was NO air opposition, as it was planned during a time when the Iraqi's would be off their guard. The IAF F-15's did fight a lot of Syians Migs in the Bakka Valley and shot down over 90 aircraft, including a bunch of Mig-23's
 
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jacques    Dancing Johnny    9/26/2003 1:17:23 AM
The IAF F-15's did fight a lot of Syians Migs in the Bakka Valley and shot down over 90 aircraft, including a bunch of Mig-23's Not just Mig 23 (mig 23 in the syrian air force are export version and still have the same radar of its smaller cousin mig 21) they also shot down mig 25 which is really impressive and took out Syrian SAM including the SA 8 which was the hardest SAM system to kill at the time.
 
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tettet    I've found something interesting   11/7/2003 6:45:32 PM
I found a web site that mentions north koreans in the arab-israeli war. Worf_Israel do you know anthing about this? It's an old article www.kimsoft.com/2000/chomyong.htm In another article it said that n.k. sent 25-30 pilots in the 3rd and 4th arab-israeli war. I wonder how well they did?
 
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lgb42    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force? Couac_Attack   11/9/2003 5:33:15 AM
Without question the USAF is the best AF in the world; however, in many specific areas the Israeli AF is number one. In every published account of mock air to air combat between the IAF vs USAF or USN Israel seriously dominates. This is simply a function of pilot training as the Israeli pilots fly more than anyone else. As far as equipment is concerned the US has the best overall but again in many areas Israeli avionics are better. The avionics industry in Israel is not only world class but is a huge export industry and *much* of it is found in US and NATO ac. Normally with another name by a partner nation company. The current Israeli AWACS system is in many ways superior to US systems- phased array radar vs mechanically scanned. Finally, Israel orders US aircraft but with much of it's own avionics. Some US stuff is better but much of the Israeli electronics is actually superior. Israel has a superior short range AAM and how good it's BVR missle is compared to AMRAAM is not available. Plane for plane and man for man they are as good or better than anyone but the IAF is not the USAF- nobody else is even close.
 
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sentinel28a    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force? Couac_Attack   11/9/2003 5:56:10 AM
Tettet--if there were North Koreans fighting Israel (why, I have no idea), my guess it would be that they did no better than anyone else. Israel, with the exception of a handful of dogfights, generally annilihates opponents in air combat. The NKs did send pilots to Vietnam, and a few scored kills against the USAF. Even more got shot down and they wrecked so many MiGs that the Vietnamese eventually, politely kicked them out of the country. Israel's been overtly participating in Red Flag at least once in the last three years. The RAF and the Armee de l'Air usually put in an appearance as well.
 
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ChdNorm    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force? Couac_Attack   11/21/2003 5:41:51 AM
I have to kind of take issue with what is apparently considered law by most on here. I don't see how the claim can be made that the Israelis are the most seasoned and experianced force in the world, whether it be on the ground or in the air. As far as Air Forces go. I'd have to guess that the USAF has dropped more ordinance, flown more combat hours, and generally performed far more operations then the IDF has since it was flying Me-109s. The Iraqi reactor strike was used as an example to start this off. And same as an earlier post, from eveything I've ever heard it was four F-16s dropping thier bombs unopposed. Was that pretty much the last time they actually did that? Have they done much CAS or other strikes in the past twenty years? I cant really think of anything of the top of my head. Meanwhile in the same time frame, The USAF has hit Libya, Panama, Iraq, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq again, and then Iraq yet again. I'm sure I'm leaving out a few as well. The British being involved in alot of those air campaigns as well, would lead me to believe that Israel would not be nearly as experianced by comparison to the US and Britain. In my opinion, to have a trully experianced force, you would have to be fairly heavily engaged at least every five years, to a maximum of ten, before that experiance is lost. Maybe I'm missing something though
 
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desertowl    RE:Does israel have the best Air Force? Couac_Attack   11/21/2003 9:35:46 AM
the tactics of the IAF are different from the american air force , because of the different tasks , budget and so forth. in some cases ans scenarios it is proved that the IAF is better then the USAF , but it says nothing , since the USAF does not put emphasys on those. never the less , i think that there is no doubt that the IAF is a superb fighting force with amazing capabilities (last attack on syrian ground proved that point). about the reactor in iraq - f16's were the air- ground and f15's watched their back... Lt. Mk (res.) i speak for no organization
 
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