The British aren't stupid.

 

Herald

Well Hearld if us brits were not stupid then instead of giving £1billion to the French for the Aster missile we would've developed the Sea Dart a little but further!!!!!!! Suppose the UK wanted to be good Europeans....again!

 

Everybody makes mistakes. The US rolled out the LCS and the DDX. At least with the Type 45 DARING you got the ship, her radars, her CMs, and other EW systems profoundly right. You can always change out the rockets. The French with FORBIN have to fix their ship from the keel up, as do we,

 

Herald

Too bad you didn't.

I wonder just how capable an airbreathing (solid-fueled ramrocket instead of liquid fueled ramjet?) modern tech Sea Dart would be.

Couple an improved engine to the much-touted AMRAAM seeker head and you've got a real winner.

What kind of range would that afford? 100km? 150? more?

Effectively, it could give the RN (and Sea Dart customers) Standard SM ranges, in a more compact weapon (might mean smaller warhead though), but perhaps not at SM costs.

Yep, have to agree. In effect it would be a bigger METEOR 

Herald

...and I bet, judging  by its size, it could be modified into an effective (a dedicated version with mission-specific hardware, or just upgrade the software to allow for it) anti-surface weapon, against both ships and land targets,

its M2+ supersonic speed making it all that much more difficult to intercept.

Just being pedantic but the Navy Matters site says that MBDA are working on the new missile family not MBDA UK. I haven't been able to find any further information on this so I'm not sure who is doing the work. Given that the UK hasn't produced a new SAM since er so long ago I can't remember (Does Starstreak count?) I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be done across the channel.

 

It also seems odd that they're talking about developing a new missile when MBDA already produces the Aster-15 and the VLMICA (which VT are installing on their OPVs for Oman). Would it not be cheaper to upgrade one of these systems?

 

I may have misunderstood this, but I hope the new missile is intended to be more like the Aster 15 than Seawolf. After all the Fremms will be armed with the Aster 15. Another procurement disaster in the offing?

 

Essex

If you can find the thread where I discussed it, see what I wrote about METEOR as the second stage of a two stage vertical launched RN or for that matter British Army SAM for the UK.

 

It at least WORKS well. [actually frightenly well]

 

And that is more than you have now with the PoS ASTER..

 

Think of it as a possible much better British version of NASAM or ESSM. 

 

Herald

For pity's sake at least use VLMETEOR.

 

Herald

Herald - I'm not sure I understand your positive comments regarding a hypothetical improved Sea Dart.  I don't know if you've ever been in contact with the system, but whilst reasonable a long time ago I don't see that you've that much to work with.

Sea Darts themselves are big, clumsy missiles.  Really big missiles.  Surely if you're replacing the seeker head with something completely different and replacing the engines with something completely different, and you're not a fan of the size... how is it the same (if updated) missile

I've no idea concerning the capabilities of the Aster missile.  You claim to have detailed technical knowledge, so for the sake of the argument I'll cede to your idea that it is awful.  If that is the case the RN would have been best served buying US missiles as I fail to see how Sea Dart could be improved to a par.

Didn't the Standard series fleet defense missiles start off as big, bulky, and certainly-underperforming-by-today's-standards weapons that, as technologies matured and were further incorporated into them, haven't they become one of today's most capable systems, yet still retaining the same original main body diameter and wing planform layout?

Why would Sea Dart have faired any worse?

And are you sure you're not confusing Sea Dart with the wholly cumbersome Sea Slug?

 

I don't see why newer ramjet designs, improved electronics, minor airframe tweaks, and perhaps even more lethal warhead designs, couldn't have improved Sea Dart comparably to the advancements incorporated into the Standard series.

Taking aside the extra bulk added by the engine's primary components, I figure (judging by pics and physical dimensions) that the useful internal volume of the actual weapon, used for avionics, seeker, control mechanisms, and warhead,

should easily at least match the useable internal volume of an 18cm (7inches) diameter Aster series, which happens to be near identical enough to AMRAAM that a modern Sea Dart should be able to incorporate the AMRAAM's forward section (seeker components) into the intake spike.

Then figure in that the thing is a big ramjet-powered body anyway, and should grant us ranges that no extended range Aster could even contemplate hitting.

 

Given that, a modern variant Sea Dart would create a much more capable weapon for PAAMS than anything else short of Standard.

 

Trust me doggtag, I'm not confusing Sea Dart with Sea Slug.  As my name implies, I work with Sea Dart.  Fortunately I'm too young to have worked with Sea Slug!

Sea Dart is a great big, old, missile.  It has been considerably updated over the years, if nowhere near as much as Standard, and is a reasonably effective missile at medium ranges.

Unfortunately, for all his claims, herald has nowhere provided technical data that shows Aster to be a bad missile.  No offence herald, but all I've read are claims to technical knowledge.  If you have it, fair enough.  Most of the people I've met who are going to be using Aster appear ignorant of your claims and sit happy in the belief that it will be a major leap forward in capability over anything Sea Dart is or could be.