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Subject: Guns, Missiles and DEWs - Where does the future lie?
Roman    2/2/2004 3:07:48 PM
The question speaks for itself. I am sure that none of the above will be completely discounted as anti-aircraft systems and all will likely be used in conjunction, but which do you think will be the predominant system. Currently, missiles are predominant, but I think direct energy weapons will be the primary form of air-defense in the future due to the virtually instantaneous 'travel time' of the killer beam, which makes for accurate and reliable kills of not only aircraft, but also cruise missiles (possibly also ballistic missiles and maybe even smaller munitions such as bombs, shells and guided missiles).
 
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gf0012-aus    RE:Guns, Missiles and DEWs - Where does the future lie?   2/2/2004 3:26:08 PM
depending on the threat I would suspect that most major rising threat assets would be targeted from space. The "god" view from space is far more beneficial than ground based. that all depends on C4I developments, EW/xINT issues as well. Space is the future dimension.
 
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Roman    RE:Guns, Missiles and DEWs - Where does the future lie?   2/2/2004 3:34:33 PM
Well, although I agree that space is the future dimension, I have some doubts about targeting aircraft from space due to... expense of placing DEW in space. I can foresee, however, spacebased sensors acquiring the aircraft and relaying the information to ground based DEW, missile and cannon/gun stations.
 
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ya2    it lies here   2/2/2004 3:36:47 PM
 
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gf0012-aus    THEL   2/2/2004 4:31:46 PM
THEL is still not at a sophisticated enough point to be deployed like a SAM battery, although it does have enormous promise. Roman, I was trying to minimise the simplification of my response. Targetting a ground launched ICBM is possible now, the capacity to develop a system that is disctriminating enough to detect and to destroy fast incomings is not impossible - its just a bit of a journey at the moment. I think that it's clearly possible to do this in the next 2 generations of integrated systems
 
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aceofw    RE:Guns, Missiles and DEWs - Where does the future lie?   2/2/2004 5:20:56 PM
What does "future" means? I belive missiles will remain the predominant weapon for quite a while longer, as DEW require a technoligical breakthrough I don't see coming anytime soon.
 
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gf0012-aus    RE:Guns, Missiles and DEWs - Where does the future lie?   2/2/2004 5:28:50 PM
maybe so, but the US and Israeli has been working on DEW for some time, there is also a DEW/Kinetic Weapons research element in Oz that has been in place for a few years.
 
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aceofw    RE:Guns, Missiles and DEWs - Where does the future lie?   2/2/2004 5:53:53 PM
I know, There is also a plan to put a chemical laser canon on a 747 and have it cruise in high altitude as a defence against ICBM's, however, such systems are still too big, and too uneffcient (and lets not forget the magic word-too expensive) to become predominent. They will arrive, as they have obviouse advantages over missiles or guns, however, as I said, "when?" is the question.
 
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gf0012-aus    RE:Guns, Missiles and DEWs - Where does the future lie?   2/2/2004 6:22:09 PM
expense is a relative concept when you are talking about a nation with the capital resources of the US. Laser ABM systems that can be applied to integrated large UAVs or Low orbit satellites is the other step to make. Any crewed solution will have limitations. To get absolute coverage you would need (IIRC) approx 108 constant flight units in place to get absolute coverage. The numbers may be a bit rubbery, but that used to be the figure to guarantee 360degrees 24/7 absolute coverage. UAV's have the advantage that they can avoid fogged areas that would render sat surveillance blind. Once autonomous AI/C4i/xINT packages are developed then they will become even more of a force multiplier - force projector. But its early days yet
 
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Roman    RE:Guns, Missiles and DEWs - Where does the future lie?   2/2/2004 7:51:38 PM
Alright, but do you think such space-based weapons would be capable of targeting and destroying atmospheric aircraft rather than exoatmospheric ballistic missile warheads, or boosting ballistic missiles themselves? I am not so sure... As to DEW technology - sure, it is still only the beginning, but I think we will see the first generation of DEW weapons before the decade expires.
 
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gf0012-aus    RE:Guns, Missiles and DEWs - Where does the future lie?   2/2/2004 8:07:49 PM
by generation I am referring to weaps development, not a human 25 year cycle. ;) I think spaced based weapons can, as an example GPS or IFF is identified and relayed by a series of satellites if a GPS or IFF is a transmitter (which in a sense they are) then you can get a lock on them (which is what they are designed to do) If you have a lock - you have a launch solution its then up to the suitability and capability of the response system just as you have anti-radar, you can have anti-gps, anti-iff. In a real sense, if an IFF is sending a unique signature, and the system is designed to target a specific signature - then you have selective killing. In a crowded air route you could selectively kill one plane in that crowded flightpath or taxiing queue. The Russians have already used a battlefield rocket at a range of 10-15km's to take out a chechyan rebel talkin on a satellite phone whilst mobile. Its not too difficult to build a capability to manage the entire solution from the relative safety if space. Hence "combined" arms
 
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