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Subject: Welcome to the torture club
Panther    10/29/2007 8:59:50 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071029/wl_nm/afghan_canada_dc By David Ljunggren Mon Oct 29, 2:55 PM ET OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada brushed off allegations on Monday that Taliban members captured by Canadian troops and handed over to Afghan authorities had been tortured, saying the militants often made false claims of mistreatment. Canada's minority Conservative government, which ran into serious trouble when faced with similar accusations earlier in the year, signed a deal with Kabul in May allowing Canadian officials unlimited access to prisoners. Ottawa said the deal would combat torture. But the French-language daily La Presse said on Monday it had found three prisoners who alleged inmates had been beaten with bricks and cables, given electric shocks, deprived of sleep and had their nails torn out. "We do expect these kind of allegations from the Taliban. It is their standard operating procedure to engage in these kinds of accusations. I'd caution ... against taking them as the word of the truth," government minister Peter Van Loan told Parliament. Opposition politicians said there were serious doubts as to whether the May deal could protect prisoners. "We now have headlines in the paper that suggest Canada is facilitating a process of torture. This is extremely serious. It's also serious under international law," said Jack Layton, leader of the left-leaning New Democratic Party. Human rights experts, speaking earlier this year, said Canadian soldiers could be guilty of war crimes because they transferred the detainees at a time when Ottawa was aware that Afghan authorities regularly tortured prisoners. International conventions prohibit a country from handing over prisoners if there is reason to suspect abuse. The three suspected Taliban members said they had been captured by Canadian troops, given a document that said torture was no longer used in Afghanistan and then transferred to the Afghan secret police. "The people from the secret service tore it (the document) up and threw it in my face. They tortured me for 20 hours. I protested and said the Canadians had promised that nothing would happen to me," La Presse quoted one of the three men as saying. "They replied: 'We're not in Canada, we're at home. The Canadians are dogs!"' he said. La Presse said it had conducted the interviews in Sarpoza prison in the southern city of Kandahar, where Canada's 2,500-strong military mission is based.
 
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SGTObvious    Herald   11/7/2007 2:13:32 PM
Herald, I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here, but I was under the impression you thought the Romans dealt with troubles through very selective assassination, not war.
 
It's a bit of a stretch to call what was done to the enemies of Rome selective.  Romans would kill 10% of their OWN men when a legion disgraced itself- god help their enemies.  When the Romans felt it was necessary to slaughter, they didn't flinch.
 
SGTObvious
 
 
 
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Herald1234       11/7/2007 2:25:35 PM

Herald, I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here, but I was under the impression you thought the Romans dealt with troubles through very selective assassination, not war.

 

It's a bit of a stretch to call what was done to the enemies of Rome selective.  Romans would kill 10% of their OWN men when a legion disgraced itself- god help their enemies.  When the Romans felt it was necessary to slaughter, they didn't flinch.

 

SGTObvious

 

 


SGTObvious;

The Romans applied selective use of force to maintain the peace. As for decimation, well when you faced Hannibal or Spartacus, or Pyhrrus the Red, what would you do to maintain discipline?
 
The US Army had an institution we called "file closers" that we used during the Civil War; when they faced the ANV.
 
Look it up.
 
We, Anericans, are not averse to ROMAN thinking.
 
Herald 
 
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Ehran       11/8/2007 12:36:28 PM




Wen a city block of Vancouver is a smoking hole in the ground come back and talk to us.

Herald

you might want to contrast the canadian response to the air india bombing which was proportionately just as big a hit to us as 9/11 was you to with the american response to 9/11.


 
 
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Ehran       11/8/2007 12:43:17 PM
sgt you can bury your head in the sand if you want but when several european gov'ts launch investigations of cia activities regarding these nonexistant facilities the doubt they exist(ed) takes a severe shot to the nards.
 
as for proxies there have been enough people come back from and talk about their experiences to kill any doubts on that regard.
 
you are about to approve yet another attorney general who cannot bring himself to rule out the routine use of torture by the usg. 
 
guess in the end it comes down to whether you stand for something or not.
 
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Herald1234       11/8/2007 4:47:24 PM






Wen a city block of Vancouver is a smoking hole in the ground come back and talk to us.

Herald


you might want to contrast the canadian response to the air india bombing which was proportionately just as big a hit to us as 9/11 was you to with the american response to 9/11.



 


http://www.cbc.ca/news/airindia/



Be careful for what you ask. I will RAM it down your throat.

Incompetence all up and down the line; CSIS really bungled it didn't they?

Reminds me EXACTLY of 9-11.

Herald
 
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SGTObvious       11/9/2007 10:54:40 AM

sgt you can bury your head in the sand if you want but when several european gov'ts launch investigations of cia activities regarding these nonexistant facilities the doubt they exist(ed) takes a severe shot to the nards.

 as for proxies there have been enough people come back from and talk about their experiences to kill any doubts on that regard.

 you are about to approve yet another attorney general who cannot bring himself to rule out the routine use of torture by the usg. 

 guess in the end it comes down to whether you stand for something or not.


Ehran, you don't really understand the US, do you?
 
1)  It is not the role of an attorney general to make policy.  Congress and the Courts have not made waterboarding illegal.  Torture is illegal.
2)  Waterboarding is not torture. It is very scary, but then again, so are a lot of things.  Eating escargot would scare the bejeezus out of me, but, like the waterboarding, it causes no damage, it is not torture.  The whole issue is a creation of the enemy, trying to "dumb down" the concept of torture to the point where Westerners think any failure to obey the demands of a prisoner is torture- meanwhile Muslims are free to mutiliate people however they wish without complaint. 
3)  Several European governments have investigated the non-existent secret prisons?  Really?  Did they find  one yet?  Several European governments have also investigated UFO's.  Come back with something more impressive. 
 
4)  So, enough "talk" has managed to kill any doubts for you?   Why?   Where does the talk come from?  A billion muslims also agree that the Quran is the word of God.  Is this sufficient "talk" for you?  I have no problem believing that a large number of people create accounts of secret prisons.   A large number of people also create accounts of alien abductions.   In Africa, there are many people who will tell you that they are bewitched, or that evil sorcery makes their penises fall off.   In YEARS, not a shred of real evidence has turned up, despite all the so called investigation.  On the other hand, we do have proof that the enemy really does capture people, torture them, and even behead them.  But some people think this is somehow less important.
 
Yes, we stand for something.  We know what torture really is.  We know better than to give in to popular hysteria.  You don't. 
 
SGTObvious
 
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Panther    SGTObvious   11/9/2007 11:21:22 AM
My God... am i glad you are back to posting on a regular basis! Whoever said God doesn't answer prayers?   :-)
 
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Ehran       11/9/2007 12:29:48 PM

link careful for what you ask. I will RAM it down your throat.

Incompetence all up and down the line; CSIS really bungled it didn't they?

Reminds me EXACTLY of 9-11.

Herald

back up a bit herald rather than focussing on the details and think about the reaction of the country at large to the bombing.
the hysteria levels were far lower here than in the usa or don't you remember all the nuke em till they glow discussions going on.  asking nuke who in particular was begging for an internet lynching much less suggesting that nukes were a really large hammer given the actual numbers of people involved in what happened.
 
and yeah csis and the mounties pooched the investigation big time but that's not the point i was trying to make.

 
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Ehran       11/9/2007 12:52:40 PM

Ehran, you don't really understand the US, do you?
i've got to admit i'm baffled by any number of things about the usg and americans at large.  how civilized folk can put up with some of the stuff going on is just plain strange.  i'm rather curious why congress has put up with this president nutting them so badly for instance and why they haven't reined him in.  i wonder if this isn't the period the historians aren't going to point at as the beginning of the end of the republic and the start of the imperial presidency. 

1)  It is not the role of an attorney general to make policy.  Congress and the Courts have not made waterboarding illegal.  Torture is illegal.
torture as defined by bush is illegal seems to be the way it works now.  course bush won't actually tell anyone what the standards are.

2)  Waterboarding is not torture. It is very scary, but then again, so are a lot of things.  Eating escargot would scare the bejeezus out of me, but, like the waterboarding, it causes no damage, it is not torture.  The whole issue is a creation of the enemy, trying to "dumb down" the concept of torture to the point where Westerners think any failure to obey the demands of a prisoner is torture- meanwhile Muslims are free to mutiliate people however they wish without complaint. 
what a friggin crock of steaming crap.  waterboarding isn't torture, stress positions aren't torture because they don't do "damage".  hmm i suppose if i was careful in hooking the electrodes to your nards and then made sure i didn't use enough juice to cause actual burns that would't be torture either given it leaves no marks?


4)  So, enough "talk" has managed to kill any doubts for you?   Why?   Where does the talk come from?  A billion muslims also agree that the Quran is the word of God.  Is this sufficient "talk" for you?  I have no problem believing that a large number of people create accounts of secret prisons.   A large number of people also create accounts of alien abductions.   In Africa, there are many people who will tell you that they are bewitched, or that evil sorcery makes their penises fall off.   In YEARS, not a shred of real evidence has turned up, despite all the so called investigation.  On the other hand, we do have proof that the enemy reall
 
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Panther       11/9/2007 2:04:39 PM
I'm just a little curious ehran, where do your opinions about us come from? Talking too us doesn't seem to help you, otherwise your posts would have stopped reminding me a long time ago of what i'm always reading on the MEMRI website! Your always seem so d@mn ready to believe the worse and way too willing too ignore what we are actually trying too say! There is a word for it...
 
Anyways, i guess i might as will come clean with you on just a few things, seeing that i am in on the conspiracy of our world domination:
 
Yes, we are out too rule the world!
 
Yes, we are going to take over your country pretty soon!
 
No, the Bush administration will not step down in 2008!
 
Yes, you will be rounded up like our other dissidents were and banished too the gulag of San Francisco! And you assumed gitmo was bad...
 
No, there will be no mercy shown to you by the surrounding American population, primarily because... you don't atleast try to put punctuations in your sentences; Or atleast capitalize when you should at the begining of a sentence or when mentioning a person, place or thing & ect... and so on... 
 
 
 
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