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Subject: Democrats propose 0.1 - 0.25% tax on stock trades
Zhang Fei    10/15/2009 8:09:12 PM
This sounds like a stimulus program for the Shanghai, London, Hong Kong and Bombay Stock Exchanges.
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Taxing financial transactions on Wall Street is gathering support in high places.

With federal budget deficits soaring, policy makers and other advocates are eyeing the huge sums that could be raised as a way to cover the costs of new initiatives.

Labor unions, in particular the AFL-CIO, have proposed a financial-transactions tax as a way to defray costs of a health-care overhaul. Lawmakers have discussed a similar fee as a way to cover the cost of future financial oversight. Liberal advocates are pushing the tax to pay for new stimulus spending.

Taxing Wall Street's financial transactions is back on the table. WSJ's John McKinnon says the populist notion is gaining support on Capitol Hill and with the IMF.

This week, the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute floated the idea of a national transaction tax that would raise $100 billion to $150 billion a year. The tax, at a rate of 0.1% to 0.25% of the value of the trade, would be levied on all financial transactions such as stock trades, but not on consumer transactions such as with credit cards.

The money would be used initially to pay for temporary aid to states, hiring incentives for public- and private-sector employers and school construction money.

"We are in a difficult time right now, so people are looking at every opportunity to gain some revenue to fund" new initiatives, said Rep. Stephen Lynch (D., Mass.), a member of the House Financial Services Committee. "Because I was one of the first to suggest using this to fund [new] regulatory infrastructure, folks have come to me and said, 'That's a good idea; I've got a better one: Why don't we use it for stimulus or especially health care?'"

One Democratic aide said the idea is under consideration among House leadership, though the discussions are preliminary.

A spokeswoman for Republican House leader John Boehner of Ohio criticized the idea. "How is killing more American jobs by stifling capital investment, further eroding families' savings and diverting much-needed investment out of the United States a good idea during a severe economic downturn?" said the spokeswoman, Antonia Ferrier.

Unnoticed by many, the concept already has found its way into federal law. At the urging of House Democratic leaders, last year's $700 billion financial-bailout bill contains a provision requiring the president to submit legislation to "recoup" from the financial-services industry any eventual shortfall in the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP.

The provision, inserted during last-minute negotiations, was encouraged by moderate Democrats who worried that taxpayers would be left footing the bill if the government investment produced big losses.

Transactions taxes first were proposed in the 1970s for currency trading, to reduce volatility in exchange rates. The idea later was seized on as a way to reduce volatility in financial systems.

In an interview Friday, Rep. Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, said he supported the legislation's idea of recouping future losses from the industry.

"I was one of the ones who suggested" the idea for the TARP provision, said the Massachusetts Democrat. He said he didn't specifically propose a financial-transactions tax. The provision could be structured as either a tax or a fee, he said, and could be a one-time provision rather than a permanent tax.

That would make it less likely that parties to financial transactions would seek to escape the tax by moving activity to another country. He said imposing such a tax "country by country...would be a problem."

Many economists have argued against a financial-transactions tax on policy grounds, saying it could have consequences for markets, in part by driving activity outside the U.S. Critics said it also would throw sand in the gears of capital markets.

Still, some appear to be changing their minds. "I'm not as hostile as I used to be," said Len Burman, a Syracuse University professor and former head of the Tax Policy Center, a venture of the left-of-center Brookings Institution and Urban Institute. Curbing frequent trading might be a good idea, he said, though he is "skeptical this is the best way to do it."

Mr. Frank said additional fees might be imposed on financial-industry participants such as payday lenders in order to pay for a consumer-protection agency.

Fees to pay for regulatory activities aren't considered a tax under House rules. The new fees would be relatively minor, he said, adding that details haven't been worked out. Similar fees already help pay for the operations of some agencies such as the Securities and Exchange Commission.

A broader question is whether levies on the financial industry might be used to help establish a rescue fund for future calamities.

In response to a question at a House hearing in September, White House economic adviser and former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker said it "might be interesting" if Congress ordered a study of the idea of a transactions tax. But he pointed to the problem of driving transactions to other countries. "That's the No. 1 problem; you'll have to get some consistency internationally," he said.

Trade unions are backing the idea to reduce government deficits and pay for new jobs initiatives, among other purposes. Amid their urging, the Group of 20 industrial and developing nations recently pushed the International Monetary Fund to study the idea, which has drawn endorsements from some leaders in the U.K. and Germany.
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GLaw    Not a bad idea   10/16/2009 4:57:43 PM
We are taxed too much and the government spends too much money.
 
But, as far as taxes go, I don't see anything about this tax that is worse than any other tax.
 
And as  I see it, I can see one good thing about it.  I think it is bad for many companies in this country that major stockholders frequently do no have a long-term stake in the success of the companies that they own, because their ownership is often fleeting at best.  A tax on trades would slow the turnover of ownership.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       10/16/2009 9:57:29 PM
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       10/16/2009 11:29:19 PM
This tax may also act to slightly discourage brokers from pushing people to buy/sell just to create more trading volume and greater commissions for themselves. 

I would also tax the fees that fund managers and their brokerage houses make on peoples' portfolios. 

And force people from floor traders to broker/dealers to MPs to wear Men's Wearhouse suits to work for a year for each impropriety they commit.
 
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WarNerd       10/18/2009 4:57:00 AM
This tax will mainly effect the big program traders, which includes nearly all the retirement funds.  It may looks like a easy target, but the ultimate result may be the collapse of most pension plans, or a huge increase in employer contributions to cover the shortfall.  Either way an economic disaster.
 
Most of the large individual traders will find ways to move to offshore exchanges where the fees do not apply and businesses in need of capital will follow.
 
Congress knows all this, they are just trying to find a way to paper over the spending problem for another year, and will come up with something new next session to offset the problems created by tax (but will not repeal the tax itself).  Then the sessions after that will repeat the process ad infinitum.
 
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sentinel28a       10/18/2009 5:36:39 AM
What about the middle class folks who also do stock trading?  And why does this country have a continual hostility towards the idea of anyone getting rich...when everyone wants to get rich?
 
I have an idea.  It's crazy, and it's wild, and I'm not sure if it's ever been tried before.  It's called CUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING.
 
Cut back on the pork projects.
Cut back on Congressional salaries and perks.
Eliminate waste in government.
Enact tort reform in the medical industry and use that to defray some costs in universal health care (if we're going to be stuck with it, might as well do something that makes sense).
Stop floating stimulus plans that don't work.
Quit bending over for unions whose time has passed.
Quit the bullshit and admit to the American people that taxes will have to be raised.
 
But that's just crazy talk, I know.  Honesty and thrift in Congress...that's just insane.
 
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WarNerd       10/19/2009 6:41:11 AM

I have an idea.  It's crazy, and it's wild, and I'm not sure if it's ever been tried before.  It's called CUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING.
Careful with that suggestion sentinel28a, the fact that you are a radical racist terrorist is showing.  You might even be accused of being a (stage whisper) REPUBLICAN!
 
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reefdiver       10/19/2009 11:08:48 AM
"Honesty and thrift in Congress...that's just insane."
 
- My driveby for the day:  Thats not insane - "honest Congress" and "thrifty Congress" are simply both oxymorons
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       10/19/2009 4:12:38 PM
Whether middle or upper class, quick turn day traders are bad for the overall economy.  Long term investment strategies win over every time.  All of those button jockeys think they are going to be Buffet but forget that he is a mid to long term holder, not a flipper.
 
As for big traders going to overseas markets, which ones?  Singapore may be tax free but helping out the Lee family and friends is a hidden expense.  The UK has plans to come down on The City much harder than DC will on Wall St and HK does not have the volume...and you have to play with the mainlanders.
 
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GLaw       10/19/2009 5:36:11 PM

What about the middle class folks who also do stock trading?  And why does this country have a continual hostility towards the idea of anyone getting rich...when everyone wants to get rich?

 

I have an idea.  It's crazy, and it's wild, and I'm not sure if it's ever been tried before.  It's called CUT GOVERNMENT SPENDING.

 

Cut back on the pork projects.

Cut back on Congressional salaries and perks.

Eliminate waste in government.

Enact tort reform in the medical industry and use that to defray some costs in universal health care (if we're going to be stuck with it, might as well do something that makes sense).

Stop floating stimulus plans that don't work.

Quit bending over for unions whose time has passed.

Quit the bullshit and admit to the American people that taxes will have to be raised.

 

But that's just crazy talk, I know.  Honesty and thrift in Congress...that's just insane.

To paraphrase you:  "It's a tax?  Taxes bad."
 
OK, I get that you dislike taxes and spending. That's fine, and I agree to a certain extent.
 
It would be more interesting, I think, to get your opinion about whether this particular taxation method is any worse than any other taxation method. It would take more thought and analysis on your part, I know.
 
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sentinel28a       10/19/2009 8:24:39 PM
Glaw, I support the income tax.  The government has to make money somehow, and it can't sell off land any longer to raise it.  I believe we should have a flat tax, which nails everyone equally.  Given our deficit, even a temporary VAT would be understandable.
 
What I don't like is Congress talking about raising taxes while they spend money like drunken sailors.  (This goes for Republicans too.)  We know that the stimulus only stimulated Democrat pet projects--it damn sure didn't help the economy.  Obamacare/Baucuscare is going to cost money we don't have on a plan that won't work.  Meanwhile, Congressional salaries keep going up while other pay stays stagnant, and while the USAF can't buy F-22s it desperately needs, Pelosi wants to make sure the USAF has plenty of Gulfstream Vs available to cart her ass to California.
 
This is the same attitude that launched the French Revolution.  The people see their taxes going up, which is wrecking their lives, and also see the nobility living high on the hog.  They start asking themselves, "Why am I putting up with paying out my rear end for taxes, when Count le Pew is throwing parties at Versailles and maintaining a harem of eight mistresses at my expense?!"
 
If Obama or Pelosi went on national TV and said "Look, we've got to raise taxes, temporarily, because we've got to pay for the war and want to get the deficit under control," I would be fine with that, and, I imagine, so would most of the American people.  And in fact, past Presidents have done exactly that (including, I believe, FDR).  The problem is that the taxes never seem to go back down, and Congress never seems to want to admit that the real reason they want to raise taxes is so they can continue to afford shoveling pork to their constituents to stay in office.
 
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