The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - March 21, 2010




New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Modern Air Power: War Over the Middle East
2.Commander: Napoleon at War
3.Close Combat: Watch am Rhein
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 
Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
How to Behave on an Internet Forum
United States Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: NY Trial
appleciderus    11/13/2009 9:24:28 PM
Former mayor Rudy:

?Returning some of the Guantanamo detainees to New York City for trial, specifically Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, has now brought us full circle ? we have regressed to a pre-9/11 mentality with respect to Islamic extremist terrorism,? former Mayor Rudy Giuliani said in a statement. ?Khalid Shaikh Mohammed should be treated like the war criminal he is and tried in a military court. He is not just another murderer, or even a mass murderer. He murdered as part of a declared war against us?America.?

Rudy said the same on Cavuto this afternoon.

I think as soon as the sheilk's usefulness expires, so should he.

Quietly, painfully, and anonymously.

Not another 5 year trial with casualties.
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16   NEXT
Panther       11/13/2009 10:02:48 PM
War... What war? The press hasn't mentioned anything about us being at war in the last eight years or so.
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    Eric Holder amok.   11/13/2009 10:04:41 PM
This shows the political tin ear of the Obama administration.
 
Quote    Reply

Jimme       11/13/2009 10:35:28 PM
This has got me so incredibly pissed its not even funny. Peter King has it right when he said this is probably the worst thing any president has ever done. How can Obama be so blinded by ideology that he would put any sense of justice we might have in jeopardy. The minute these demons set foot on US soil they receive a host of rights they neither deserve nor extended to any of their victims. The defense lawyers could drag this out for years and make a mockery of the entire system. The whole process would be in the hands of a judge who could be a liberal sympathetic PoS!
 
None of these guys where read their Miranda rights, their lawyers will say they were tortured and have any confessions thrown out of court, they cold also motion for discovery and force sensitive information to be made public. All for what? This spit head to say "we are better then they are" or some other stupid liberal crap.
 
FDR knew better then this when he had the Nazi terrorist caught in Florida court Marshalled and executed and the SUPREME COURT  upheld his decision! Now I have to worry about an intensified Terrorist effort in NY to protest the trials or maybe even some more fort Hood type lone terrorist.
 
 Real smart.
 
 
Quote    Reply

smitty237       11/14/2009 12:45:29 AM
This is a calculated and risky gamble for the Obama Administration.  I believe they are firmly confident that they will get a conviction in the case, but I think they also want to use this trial to further embarass the Bush/Cheney Administration.  The problem will be introducing elements that will hurt Bush (and by extension Republicans) without running the risk of winning acquittals for the terrorists.  The longer the trial runs the harder it will be for the Obama people to blame Bush and/or the CIA for a subsequent acquittal. 
 
Quote    Reply

appleciderus    Are they related?   11/14/2009 9:25:14 AM
We all understand the fundamental difference between treating terrorism as a criminal offense rather than as a military threat. The left has always wanted to try the sheik in criminal court, but was the announcement made now in order to deflect focus from the Fort Hood massacre?
 
Quote    Reply

Ashley-the-man       11/14/2009 1:08:52 PM
This is a calculated and risky gamble for the Obama Administration.  I believe they are firmly confident that they will get a conviction in the case, but I think they also want to use this trial to further embarass the Bush/Cheney Administration.  The problem will be introducing elements that will hurt Bush (and by extension Republicans) without running the risk of winning acquittals for the terrorists.  The longer the trial runs the harder it will be for the Obama people to blame Bush and/or the CIA for a subsequent acquittal. 
 
The U.S. secretely indicted KSM in January 1996.  The Clinton Administration chased him around the world for the next four years without success. During this time he hatched and worked with bin Laden on the 911 plot.  It would seem that the Clinton Administration was ineffective in preventing the 911 plot.  The Bush Administration finally put enough pressure on the Pakistani ISI to capture KSM in March 2003 and turn him over to the U. S.  There may have been many more attacks by KSM led terrorists had he not been stoped. 
 
Like European tourists who were killed outside the pyramids to protest the trial of the blind Sheikh Rachman in 1996,  there may be attacks on westerns while KSM is on trail. 
 
There is enough on KSM to not address the waterboarding that the CIA used on him to prevent any plots he had hatched.
 
Obama is facing outrage over his decision to bring KSM to New York.  One wonders is he will ever come to understand the compromises the Bush Administration had to make in holding people at Quantanamo.  It is one think while on the campaign trail to be high minded, and another while having to made tough decisions to put a political spin on an unpopular decision.
 
 
Quote    Reply

Ezekiel       11/14/2009 2:17:39 PM











This is a calculated and risky gamble for the Obama Administration.  I believe they are firmly confident that they will get a conviction in the case, but I think they also want to use this trial to further embarass the Bush/Cheney Administration.  The problem will be introducing elements that will hurt Bush (and by extension Republicans) without running the risk of winning acquittals for the terrorists.  The longer the trial runs the harder it will be for the Obama people to blame Bush and/or the CIA for a subsequent acquittal. 
 

The U.S. secretely indicted KSM in January 1996.  The Clinton Administration chased him around the world for the next four years without success. During this time he hatched and worked with bin Laden on the 911 plot.  It would seem that the Clinton Administration was ineffective in preventing the 911 plot.  The Bush Administration finally put enough pressure on the Pakistani ISI to capture KSM in March 2003 and turn him over to the U. S.  There may have been many more attacks by KSM led terrorists had he not been stoped. 

 

Like European tourists who were killed outside the pyramids to protest the trial of the blind Sheikh Rachman in 1996,  there may be attacks on westerns while KSM is on trail. 

 

There is enough on KSM to not address the waterboarding that the CIA used on him to prevent any plots he had hatched.

 

Obama is facing outrage over his decision to bring KSM to New York.  One wonders is he will ever come to understand the compromises the Bush Administration had to make in holding people at Quantanamo.  It is one think while on the campaign trail to be high minded, and another while having to made tough decisions to put a political spin on an unpopular decision.
 


Good summary....
 
I would add that this decision is a manifestation of the clear refusal to see terrorism in a wider context of a war with militant islam. By giving these jihadists a propoganda stage and greater access to the American legal system manipulation and weakness is ensured to follow.
 
 
Obama/Holder is actually going against US legal precedent in removing the military tribunals in cases of foreign aggression.
 
Quote    Reply

YelliChink       11/14/2009 8:43:39 PM
www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/14/illinois.prison.gitmo/index.html
 
Illinois prison top contender to house Gitmo detainees, official says
 
=================================================
WTF!? NIMBY! NIMBY! NIMBY!
 
 
Quote    Reply

Hamilcar    ROTFLMAO   11/14/2009 9:02:45 PM

www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/14/illinois.prison.gitmo/index.html

 


Illinois prison top contender to house Gitmo detainees, official says

 

=================================================

WTF!? NIMBY! NIMBY! NIMBY!


 

Why not? Bring the recruiters and recruits into close proximity.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

sentinel28a       11/15/2009 4:02:41 AM
Montana must be out of the running, then.  I can see why...when the people of Hardin (where the Gitmo detainees were to be located) heard about the possible relocation, they were grinning and talking about "hunting season."
 
Yeah, I imagine Holder and Obama wouldn't be too keen on putting prisoners in an area where the locals hope they escape.  Illinois? That tells me that all the administration can see is more jobs for their political cronies. 
 
Quote    Reply

appleciderus    Jack Reed   11/15/2009 11:25:53 AM

This morning Senator Jack Reed appeared with Chris Wallace and defended the decision to try terrorists in criminal court rather than military tribunals, offering, among other reasons, it shows the world we are better than terrorists by trying them in NY. (This while Obama is traveling the world exclaiming we are not better than anyone)

 

After defending this position from both the upside and possible downsides, Wallace asked, and I paraphrase, - What if they are acquitted and set free?-

 

Reed responded that under international law the US can keep them detained.

 

Wallace asked again.

 

Reed said they would not be released.

 

So my challenge to any who believe the reason for this is decision to try these terrorists in a criminal court is?WTF?

 

Reed admits international law allows detaining these terrorist indefinitely?Bush policy!

 

Reed admits if found not guilty, they would be detained.  Isn?t that contradictory to the official democratic position that holding these terrorists aids terrorist recruiting of acolytes?

 

I have recorded the interview, so if anyone cares to contradict my portrayal of Reed?s words, I will be happy to review the recording for errors and additional holes in administration logic.

 

This interview convinces me further that the decision to announce a trial in NY was made before administration policy was fully thought out and was made primarily to divert attention from the Fort Hood Massacre. (Has anyone seen a lead story on Fort Hood since Eric ?the bag man ? Holder?s Friday?s press conference?)

 

Madness! (but perhaps political genius)
 
Quote    Reply

Vulture       11/15/2009 1:20:16 PM
I have my own suspicions for Obama choosing this venue for KSM.
 Even though evidence obtained by torture can (and likely will) be excluded, KSM's defense team gets the facts that KSM was tortured into the trial record.   An appeal can be based on it.  SCOTUS will throw it out... in 3-4 years.
 
Even better once the "torture" is a matter of record, then the DOJ can open an investigation again in the GWB administration whose actions "threatened" (do we get a mistrial if they plant one juror on there who says KSM can't be punished because he was already tortured)  the prosecution's case?  So I see it as a back door way for AG Holder to go after  Bush/Cheney.
 
 
/military tribunal since we are still in a declared War .  even AG holder agreed to that fact.
 
 
Quote    Reply

YelliChink       11/16/2009 4:45:43 PM
Very good article on WSJ
 
online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704431804574537370665832850.html?mod=rss_opinion_main
 
You should be chilling after you read this.
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       11/16/2009 7:03:02 PM
KSM is not a criminal in my opinion and does not belong in a U.S. civilian court. There is a chance that he could be found not guilty and it would be legally binding. He is also not a soldier as defined by the Geneva Convention. This is clearly a legal grey area and I don't believe our legal system is properly designed to handle it. I think handling it this way could turn out to be a mistake.

a. How is KSM going to get a fair trial?

b. If he is found not guilty, it would be a disaster.

c. What exactly do you charge him with?

d. If convicted, what are the implications? 
 

-DA 
 
Quote    Reply

appleciderus       11/16/2009 8:24:48 PM

I have to agree with Darth. He is correct on a number of points. KSM is not a criminal, he is a terrorist. He is not a soldier as defined by the Geneva Convention, he is a terrorist. On Darth?s other points:

 

A: He will get a 3, 4, or 5 year circus trial OJ would envy. Would it be fair? NO! It would be to his advantage.

 

B: It would be a disaster to have him found not guilty, especially since the administration spokesman, Senator Jack Reed, told the nation yesterday that he would never go free. Wouldn?t that be a fine example of US justice by the Obama machine. We put him on trial, he was found not guilty, and we put him back in jail.

 

C: You charge him with mass murder, crimes against civilization, conspiracy to commit murder, genocide, and double parking if you must.

 

D: If found guilty, the implications are profound. Firstly, hang him. Then allocate a few billion dollars to lifetime protection for the judge and jury since there is surely to be a fatah. Then educate a host of new junior attorney generals on how to prosecute a Fort Hood terrorist like attack as a criminal matter, with special attention to insanity defense.Install a London type camera system on every street corner in Manhattan, and tell the rest of the country to sleep with one eye open for the rest of their lives.

 

I can find no upside for the US in this disaster. Perhaps it deflected attention away from the Fort Hood massacre, or perhaps it placates his marxist base before he sends additional troops to Afghanistan, but one thing is certain. It is a political move that Obama sees as beneficial to him and him only. The Country, and NYC especially, be damned.

 

 
 
Quote    Reply
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16   NEXT



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2010StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy