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Subject: Which country is the greatest enemy of Fundementalist Islam?
ilpars    5/20/2004 7:55:36 AM
This is from Iraq board which I think more suitable to this board. From Robert Spencer; the director of Jihad Watch "The Muslim Brotherhood, the prototypical Muslim radical group of the modern age, was founded in Egypt by Hassan Al-Banna in 1928. The Brotherhood emerged as a response to the abolition of the caliphate by Turkish secularist pioneer Mustafa Kemal Ataturk in 1924. Al-Banna and the Brotherhood considered Islam to have an essential political and social character that needed to be reasserted in the face of the societal ills that had come to the Islamic world with secularism. Al-Banna excoriated Ataturk for separating ?the state from religion in a country which was until recently the site of the Commander of the Faithful.? Sounding notes that Osama bin Laden would echo decades later, Al-Banna characterized the abolition of the caliphate as just part of a larger ?Western invasion which was armed and equipped with all [the] destructive influences of money, wealth, prestige, ostentation, power and means of propaganda.?[2]" Turkey is an enemy of fundementalism since 1924 longer than any other nation. That was not an easy struggle. In Ataturk's time, thousands of fundementalists sent to prison or executed for the charge of treason. Al-Queda not only attacked USA or Europe; it has also attacked Turkey. More than that different fundementalist groups had attacked Turkey or tried to since 1924. Do not be at fault. Biggest enemy of fundementalism is Turkey not USA. They hated Turkey more than they hate Israel or USA. In their eyes we are traitors that have chosen the enemy camp. Unlike them we are secularist, modern. Many of them had much more money than us(especially Saudi Arabia) but they are much more backward. It is easy for a fanatic to label every muslim as a supporter of terrorism. But the truth is opposite. The real war is not a War of Religion, or culture. It is a war for the future of Muslim nations. Will the future of Muslim nations be like secularist and modern Turkey; nationalist Syria-Iraq or fundementalist Iran-Saudia Arabia?
 
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SGTObvious    Turkey is probably the greatest threat to Islamic Fundamentalists   5/20/2004 8:34:29 AM
Simply because the Turks are living proof that people can be Muslims without being total wack-jobs. This is logical, unfortunately, the Enemy does not think logically. Guyana has a large Muslim population, and they are not nuts, but they are too far away.
 
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American Kafir    RE:Which country is the greatest enemy of Fundementalist Islam?   5/20/2004 4:08:48 PM
I'm not sure how to answer this question, but I'll try. It seems to me that the greatest enemy of fundamentalist Islam would be the country that either opposes fundamentalist Islam the most or the country that fundamentalist Islam must defeat in order to forward their goals. I hope the United States of America embraces the charge of being the enemy of fundamentalist Islam willingly and demonstrably. In some ways we have. But I think we can do more. We need to get over this mealymouthed concern about what the Islamic world thinks. Yeah, they hate America. So what. They can hate America and do the hajj around a radioactive crater in Mecca too. Nothing will change.
 
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ilpars    RE:Which country is the greatest enemy of Fundementalist Islam? - AK   5/21/2004 5:44:07 AM
"It seems to me that the greatest enemy of fundamentalist Islam would be the country that either opposes fundamentalist Islam the most or the country that fundamentalist Islam must defeat in order to forward their goals." I totaly agree with this definition. Turkey is fighting against Fundementalist Islam since 1924; USA since 1980's. USA fights against it only militarily; but Turkey is fighting also ideologically. As the goal of the Fundementalist Islam is to convert all Muslim countries to fundementalism; Turkey is the primary country that they have to defeat. Fundementalist Islam is fighting against USA to convert the powerbase of Arab-Nationalists and other Muslim power groups to itself. War against USA is a tool for them not a goal. A side note: From the collective result of your messages I got the idea that; you are kind of person to burn an entire forest just to kill the wolf that had bitten you.
 
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chemist    Ilpars   5/21/2004 6:25:16 AM
You Turks should just keep on keepin' on. You guys are an example of keeping your cultural and religious identity while being able to mesh with other societies. That's a good thing. But, you guys have been trying to win hearts and minds for over 80 years now. Does it really seem to be working? As to AK. No, he isn't going to cut off his nose to spite his face. But some of the wackjobs need to remember that the US has the capability to kill nine out of ten people in the ME without resorting to n/b/c weapons. AK is,in a rather acid wit kind of way, trying to remind people on this board that the US will eventually get tired of trying to change behavior with kid gloves on. Eventually we will bring out the REALLY BIG STICK. They can either change on their own, with your help, or through some really nasty social Darwinistic cataclysm brought to them by the US. It's their choice Ilpars. AK wants them to really think about it for a moment before they do something stupid to surely and trully piss us off..
 
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ilpars    RE:Ilpars - Chemist   5/21/2004 6:49:33 AM
Best way to learn is observation. Come to Turkey and see it with your own eyes. I will guarantee you a memorable holiday. For a tourist we have everything. Beatiful beaches and summer holiday facilities. Skiing for winter holidays. In Spring or Fall, Antalya is the only place in the world you can ski in the mountain and swim in a warm sea in the same day. Exciting nightlife. Turkish food is one of the best in the world for taste ans variety. Our only rivals are French and Italian foods in Europe. Great historical places to visit like Troy, Istanbul, Capodocia. Natural wonders like Pamukkale. Tourism is a great way to break prejudgements.
 
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displacedjim    RE:Ilpars - Chemist   5/21/2004 9:15:11 AM
I'm going to jump in here and say I'm truly glad you're on this list. Frankly, somewhat to my shame but there it is, I couldn't give too much of a rat's ass for what just about anyone who's not an American has to criticize about America. You on the other hand are not being critical, you're trying to be helpful. And that coming from a Moslem living in a predominately Moslem country is actually a refreshing change. PLease continue to add your observations as time permits. As for Turkey, you see to me to be a bit defensive about something. Do you think Americans have some sort of bias against Turkey? I don't think so. I would say in general there's a bias against radical Islamists (for good reason) who in general seem to be middle east Arabs, but I don't think Americans link them to Turkey. I assume you and others here are right to view both Turkey and America as targets of their hate. As for Fundamentalist Islam's greatest enemy, meaning what do those radical Islamists hate most, I'm thinking they've got enough hate to encompass both your homeland and mine. Displacedjim
 
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ilpars    RE:Ilpars - displacedjim   5/21/2004 9:35:46 AM
I opened this topic specifically for AK and others like him who thought there is a war between religions going on. I tried to show that Turkey is also fighting against Fundementalism and our fight is older, more complex and more decisive than American's fight. On the other hand, I like America and Americans who do not dislike me because of my religion. In the last 3 years I am spending my yearly vacations at USA.
 
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American Kafir    RE:Which country is the greatest enemy of Fundementalist Islam? - AK   5/21/2004 10:01:29 AM
>>A side note: From the collective result of your messages I got the idea that; you are kind of person to burn an entire forest just to kill the wolf that had bitten you.<< Then I have given you the wrong impression. I'm the kind of person that burn an entire forest to kill the wolf that bit me, then search for more forests and wolves to burn until there wre no wolves left.
 
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American Kafir    RE:Ilpars   5/21/2004 10:06:52 AM
>>AK is,in a rather acid wit kind of way, trying to remind people on this board that the US will eventually get tired of trying to change behavior with kid gloves on. Eventually we will bring out the REALLY BIG STICK. They can either change on their own, with your help, or through some really nasty social Darwinistic cataclysm brought to them by the US. It's their choice Ilpars. AK wants them to really think about it for a moment before they do something stupid to surely and trully piss us off. << Not at all. I want them, instead, to have trouble concentrating on the error of their ways because they can set their watches to the American bombing runs on their cities.
 
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ilpars    RE:Which country is the greatest enemy of Fundementalist Islam? - AK   5/21/2004 10:22:48 AM
Then I wish no dog has ever bite you. I have a Kangal Shepperd dog that I am very fond of. :)
 
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