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August 6, 2008: India's success at containing Islamic terrorists from entering northwest India (Kashmir), has caused some of those terrorists to shift operations to Afghanistan. These Pakistanis are not border tribesmen (Pushtuns) but men recruited from more populous parts of the country (like the Punjab). They are being found among the dead and captured Taliban in those few parts of Afghanistan that are sort of at war. Most of Afghanistan has been at peace, or at least what passes for peace in this part of the world, since 2002. But most of the adult male population is armed (the majority of those just for self-defense). The chronically high unemployment makes it easy for warlords (usually ambitious tribal leaders, actually anyone with access to cash and guns) to recruit and to head off looking for power (intimidating other tribes) or loot (stealing whatever they can).

This ancient warrior tradition has been revived big time in the "Pushtun belt" (the Pushtun tribal territories on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistani border) by the establishment of the heroin trade in Helmand province. Most of the poppies are grown here, and processed into opium and heroin, mostly for export. The trade once flourished across the border in Pakistan, but two decades ago the government shut it down, after experiencing a sharp increase in drug addiction throughout Pakistan.

Now the new addicts are Afghan, and most of the country is hostile to heroin and opium production. But the drug lords don't want to move on again, as the next move will take them out of Pushtun territory, and many of the Pushtun drug gangsters won't have an easy time of it operating with "foreigners" (anyone who is not a Pushtun). Before the Taliban were overthrown in 2001, they demonstrated their willingness to tolerate the heroin trade (as long as nearly all of the stuff was exported, because the Koran, by implication, forbids these drugs, along with alcohol). The Taliban needed the high "taxes" that the drug gangs could pay, and still does. The drug gangs and the Taliban (basically Islamic conservatives with guns and attitude) need each other. The drug lords know they can bribe plenty of government officials to leave them alone, while the Taliban believe they can intimidate the government, and anti-Taliban tribes, to obey.

The relationship between the drug gangs and the Taliban is an imperfect one. There is no unified command, just dozens of local arrangements that follow the same pattern (the drug gangs use bribes and Taliban violence to keep their poppy fields and refining operations safe from government interference).

In terms of casualties, the Taliban are losing. The NATO forces are losing about six men per thousand per year. The Afghan police and army are suffering about twice that casualty rate. The Taliban are losing three or four times as many as the Afghan security forces. But the Afghan war is not so much about casualties as it is about tribal politics. As long as some of the tribes, or tribal factions, support the Taliban, the fighting will continue. This kind of violence has been endemic in Afghanistan for thousands of years. These wars end either through a threat of extermination (the old Mongol approach, which is no longer acceptable), or negotiation. The big difference between the Afghan government, and NATO, is over the importance of negotiation, and what can be given up. Many in the government are willing to tolerate some degree of heroin production and Taliban autonomy, in order to achieve more peace. NATO and the U.S. do not go along with that option.

August 1, 2008: Publicly, Pakistan denies U.S. charges that the Pakistani intelligence agency (the ISI) helped plan and carry out the July 7th terror attack on the Indian embassy in Afghanistan. Privately, Pakistan promises to root out Islamic conservatives and pro-Taliban operatives in the ISI. This has been a problem with the ISI since the 1980s, and no one has been willing to do the deed because the ISI could provide accurate information on Islamic terrorists (as when al Qaeda and the Taliban make terror attacks in Pakistan outside of the tribal territories.) But the Islamic conservatives in Pakistan are not united, and some factions are now openly at war with the government. The factionalism extends to the ISI, making more difficult any attempt to clean up the organization. Unfortunately, it's not just the ISI. There are Islamic militants (or their fans) throughout the military and government. But nowhere are they as thick as in the ISI, and it's becoming a public embarrassment. Expect to see some fireworks in this department.

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jak267       8/6/2008 7:41:30 AM
Hurt the tribes every time an IED or suicide bomber goes off and it will stop.
 
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Carney    Pushtunistan   8/6/2008 10:38:16 AM
We should break up most of the diverse countries in the Middle East, particularly the multi-ethnic and/or multi-lingual ones, particularly Pakistan and Afghanistan.
 
A true nation-state can use nationalism as a source of popular support and legitimiacy rather than relying on Islam, the nature of whose scriptures and other traditions frame all debates in such a way as to advantage the radicals.
 
It's hard to hold the Pushtuns accountable when they lack a state, and when they can skip back and forth across the Afghan/Pakistan border to evade one or the other "national" authorities.  Being in a constant state of sullen quasi-rebellion against both their governments also encourages criminality and receptivity to terrorists.
 
A Pushtunistan, however, would be a very different story.  Surrounded by cohesive (and in some cases enlarged) Uzbek, Tajik, Baloch, and Punjabi nation-states who would patrol their borders in a rigorous rather than desultory fashion, and with direct responsibility on their shoulders about the conduct of Taliban, al-Qaeda, and other radicals within, the Pushtun leadership would have a stronger incentive than it does today to behave.
 
 
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arodrig6       8/6/2008 11:56:47 AM

We should break up most of the diverse countries in the Middle East, particularly the multi-ethnic and/or multi-lingual ones, particularly Pakistan and Afghanistan.
I think that many of those diverse countries (such as Pakistan, Iraq, Turkey, Lebanon, and Iran to name a few) may object to being broken up...

Also, it is rather hard to divide diverse countries into ethnic sections because people tend to mix together. Unlike the map, Afghanistan is not divided into discrete ethnic enclaves - it is closer to a probability distribution or gradient.
 
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arodrig6       8/6/2008 12:27:55 PM

We should break up most of the diverse countries in the Middle East, particularly the multi-ethnic and/or multi-lingual ones, particularly Pakistan and Afghanistan.
I think that many of those diverse countries (such as Pakistan, Iraq, Turkey, Lebanon, and Iran to name a few) may object to being broken up...

Also, it is rather hard to divide diverse countries into ethnic sections because people tend to mix together. Unlike the map, Afghanistan is not divided into discrete ethnic enclaves - it is closer to a probability distribution or gradient.
 
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sanman    Pashtunism vs Islamism   8/6/2008 8:34:39 PM
arodrig, that is inaccurate. Pashtunistan is an historical entity much older than 60-year old Pakistan. Certainly it has highly defined territorial span, which has unfortunately been split by the Durand Line artificially imposed by the British. The existence of this artificial division created by the British has only caused trauma in the region. Removing the Durand Line and restoring historic Pashtunistan will solve the problem of Islamist fundamentalism. As many have observed, Pakistan is in a co-dependent relationship -- a relationship where one party has made the other party sick and dependent, and continues to keep it sick and dependent, in order to derive some benefit from the other's sickness and dependence. Pakistan has gone out of its way to ensure Pashtuns are infected with Islamic fundamentalism, and needs Pashtuns to be infected with Islamic fundamentalism, in order to keep them bound to it, and to suppress Pashtun ethnic separatist nationalism. The side-effect, though, is that many fundamentalist Pashtuns will then keep friendly ties with AlQaeda, etc, and thus cause a dire security threat to the world at large.
That's how 9/11 happened.

 
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arodrig6       8/6/2008 10:06:49 PM

arodrig, that is inaccurate. Pashtunistan is an historical entity much older than 60-year old Pakistan. Certainly it has highly defined territorial span, which has unfortunately been split by the Durand Line artificially imposed by the British. The existence of this artificial division created by the British has only caused trauma in the region. Removing the Durand Line and restoring historic Pashtunistan will solve the problem of Islamist fundamentalism. As many have observed, Pakistan is in a co-dependent relationship -- a relationship where one party has made the other party sick and dependent, and continues to keep it sick and dependent, in order to derive some benefit from the other's sickness and dependence. Pakistan has gone out of its way to ensure Pashtuns are infected with Islamic fundamentalism, and needs Pashtuns to be infected with Islamic fundamentalism, in order to keep them bound to it, and to suppress Pashtun ethnic separatist nationalism. The side-effect, though, is that many fundamentalist Pashtuns will then keep friendly ties with AlQaeda, etc, and thus cause a dire security threat to the world at large.

That's how 9/11 happened.


Sanman, I would agree that the colonial divisions of Partition have lead to trauma in the region, however my main point was that "break[ing] up most of the diverse countries in the Middle East," is not an easily done task. Though Pakistan is the product of artificial divisions, quite a lot of the population would object to having another set of divisions imposed on them. To say nothing of other diverse countries in the Middle East (e.g. Iraq, Turkey, Lebanon, and Iran).
 
Though Pashtunistan may have a longer historical precedent, the fact is Pakistan has existed for 60+ years. In that time populations have moved and demographics have changed. Redrawing boundaries at this point would not be feasible. Essentially, we would face the same problem the British did: placing an arbitrary line to divide populations which have mixed over thousands of years.
 
Consider this map:
 

Even if we only redrew borders to include districts with a majority of one ethnic population or another we would have to create at least 26 'nations.' Even the area of former Pashtunistan has seen major changes in demographics over the last 60 years. For example, they are much more urban, and there are hundreds of thousands of refugees from other parts of Afganistan.
 
 
I would also question your assertion that recreating pashtunistan would "solve the problem of Islamic fundamentalism" - Islamic Fundamentalism exists for a variety of reasons. Many unpartitioned, non-diverse nations suffer from it (e.g. Saudi Arabia). 
 
 
Your thoughts?
 
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s,dog7       8/7/2008 9:12:40 PM

I have always said that Pakistan helps the terrorist & are the terrorist.

just the other day they said that Pakistan helped the terrorist plan the attack in India, I new it, if they wanted to they would send 50,000 to 70,000 troops to the tribal area, and could stop them easy,, yes easy.

I think that we will never get bin lardon, I think that Pakistanis intelligent agency is hiding him, that or they are mates with hi members of al-Qaeda.

As if they do not stop them from crossing the border to Afghanistan when they are killing the afghan people, if that was the other way round, they would cross the border 100%.

How do you attack your enemies with out being attacked or known,, start terrorist and or fund them.

That is what they have done, and have probably done it for 40 years.

For real, I even would go as far as to say they new 9/11 was going to happen.

 
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s,dog7       8/7/2008 9:15:08 PM

arodrig, that is inaccurate. Pashtunistan is an historical entity much older than 60-year old Pakistan. Certainly it has highly defined territorial span, which has unfortunately been split by the Durand Line artificially imposed by the British. The existence of this artificial division created by the British has only caused trauma in the region. Removing the Durand Line and restoring historic Pashtunistan will solve the problem of Islamist fundamentalism. As many have observed, Pakistan is in a co-dependent relationship -- a relationship where one party has made the other party sick and dependent, and continues to keep it sick and dependent, in order to derive some benefit from the other's sickness and dependence. Pakistan has gone out of its way to ensure Pashtuns are infected with Islamic fundamentalism, and needs Pashtuns to be infected with Islamic fundamentalism, in order to keep them bound to it, and to suppress Pashtun ethnic separatist nationalism. The side-effect, though, is that many fundamentalist Pashtuns will then keep friendly ties with AlQaeda, etc, and thus cause a dire security threat to the world at large.

That's how 9/11 happened.  no no no no no






 
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