Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Infantry Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Combat Hunter, Developing Program Improving the Tracking & Surveillance Skill of the DO Squad
SCCOMarine    1/29/2008 2:39:37 PM
DO enhanced training allows the Infantry to become the primary source of intelligence collection during MAGTF operations, flooding an AO w/human sensors restricting the enemies movement. DO will also free up the Inf Batt's Recon Element to concentrate on more specialized reconnaissance & taskings. Taking on the more routine Reconnaissance missions of Zone & Area Recon, Tracking, Observation & Surveillance, & Ambushing, Raiding, & Patrolling at extended ranges. Combat Hunter addresses the fine points an Individual Marine Needs to succeed in those tasks.
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2
SCCOMarine       1/29/2008 2:43:14 PM

Press Release # MCWL-07-0205

MARINE CORPS BASE QUANTICO, VA ? ?Always the hunter, never the hunted.? That?s the tagline for a new Marine program, Combat Hunter, designed to teach Marines how to better observe, communicate, and act in their effort to ?find, fix, and finish? the enemy.
 
Combat Hunter started as a Marine Corps Warfighting Laboratory (MCWL) project initiated at the request of the Commanding General, I Marine Expeditionary Force (I MEF). The project seeks to improve the observation and hunting skills of the individual Marines operating in combat environments to enhance their lethality and survivability, and it directly supports the maturing concept of Distributed Operations.The project?s goal is to improve combat efficiency, while reducing combat casualties, through the application of skills used by hunters as they pursue their quarry.

Combat Hunter?s methods are based on three criteria--identifying skills that will make Marines more efficient ?hunters? in all environments (especially urban), examining and employing the skills used by individuals who have lived in disadvantaged areas of large cities, and developing training programs from skills identified during experimentation.

MCWL conducted limited objective experiments (LOE) on how to teach Marines to be better observers of their surroundings based on those methods. Key takeaways from these experiments included:

-Focusing on how to distinguish what is here that should not be here; and what should be here that is not.

-Better assessing situations and being proactive, rather than reactive to an immediate threat.

-Using something as simple as binoculars dramatically improves situational awareness and threat assessment.

The goal of these experiments was to empower Marines to routinely venture ?outside the wire? with increased confidence and offensive sprit. Analysis of the data produced by these experiments indicated that the experimental training program (Combat Hunter) produced better results than those produced by just a man tracking training program, and significantly better results than the normal Marine Corps Training program. 

Participant feedback was also an important part of the assessment process.  

LOE 1 participant(Cpl)
 
I?m more confident because I feel the hunting skills I learned here were more useful than most of what I?ve learned up to this point. I feel extremely confident in the skills I was taught here. I only need more on the skills I picked up here.

LOE 2 participant(Pvt)
This course opened my eyes to a ton of new possibilities, and what to look for, how to look for it, and why we look for it, how to control your heart rate, in a serious situation.

Feedback from experiment participants was rolled into the formal program of instruction developed by the Marine Corps? Training and Education Command, who now have the lead for implementing the Combat Hunter program. These experiments epitomize the Marine Corps? approach to small unit and individual excellence; however, that approach is much more than just a mind set. The Combat Hunter Marine is more capable and confident, in effectively observing, moving and acting to better accomplish the mission by: 

-Operating as member of the patrol with the skills and mindset of a ?hunter,? and point man or flanker.

-Confidently seeking the adversary with the intent to engage, before being engaged.

-Understanding how to better employ the equipment of an infantryman.

Combat Hunter falls under the larger umbrella of distributed operations (DO) as one of several ?DO enablers.? The Marine Corps is conducting a number of supporting experiments on these DO enablers with the objective of further enhancing the ability

 
Quote    Reply

Horsesoldier       1/29/2008 3:13:11 PM
Combat Hunter?s methods are based on three criteria--identifying skills that will make Marines more efficient ?hunters? in all environments (especially urban), examining and employing the skills used by individuals who have lived in disadvantaged areas of large cities, and developing training programs from skills identified during experimentation.
 
Interesting idea, but I don't think this is a productive line of thinking that they are pursuing.  Quite simply, the things that indicate potential danger to some guy who grew up in a crappy part of LA, NYC, Chicago, or whatever, are not going to be the same indicators of danger in, say, downtown Baghdad.  Or they're going to be the obvious ones that even some guy raised by wolves in the mountains of Alaska can pick up on (i.e. when all the neighborhood kids suddenly aren't on the street any more).
 
I suspect the program actually addresses this somehow and the article just wasn't that well written, though.  Detailed debriefings of guys rotating back from real world urban operations as serving Marines are probably quite a bit more productive than hours spent getting kids to explain ghetto survival skills. 
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    horse   1/30/2008 1:36:19 PM
Not quite, what the program does is formally delve into and explore something that Savvy Plt Sgts and Cmdrs have noticed & exploited for a long time, inner city kids fr/ violent neighborhoods have had to develop a 6th sense about; danger, where to walk where not to walk, whats in & out of place, shiesty & shady characters.  B/C of this they often see things out of place that most ppl don't see, so they're often asked on patrols, "hey Jones, what do you see that I'm missing."
 
On the flipside Cmdrs have noticed when out on Field Ex's patrolling setting up ambushes whatever, their country boys & I mean the ones fr/ a real rural up bringing...not trailer trash...but the real mountain boys who spent years huniting & trapping are invaluable in patrolling & using the terrain for ambushing.
 
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    horse   1/30/2008 1:39:39 PM

BACKGROUND on the program. Keep in mind its still a program, experimental.

 

CMC Gen Conway knowing this fr/ his days as a Jr Off & later commanding J.O. to exploit this, Questioned could this be Institutionalized?

 

One thing you have to understand is this is not something just thrown out there, someone said this sounds like a good Idea...lets run w/it.  No, this started like everything else in the MC w/ discussion on all levels.

 

Commandant Starts the discussion, gets a lot of pos. feedback.  He took the Idea & feedback to CETO, Center for Emerging Threats and Opportunities, the USMCs private Think Tank created by the MC solely to brainstorm the craziest of Ideas and scenarios and see if they're feasible.

 

CETO says its feasible, they took it along w/ all the different avenues you can go w/it to the Marine Corps Warfighting Lab to see if & whats applicable.

 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine       1/30/2008 2:12:57 PM

Experimental Process

MCWL questioned Marines fr/ across the board using; slides, videos, virtual scenarios etc.  Letting the scenarios play out pausing them and asking:
 what did you see? does anything seem out of place? if so what and why? what do you think is going to happen? how do those guys over there strike you? do they seem odd? if so why? what do yo think they're up to?
 
From there the Qs would get very specific. Then they'd let the scenarios play out.  What they found out was hands down the inner city Marines could pretty accurately read the scenarios and predict the outcomes.  Flipside got similar results using alot of Prac Apps.
 
They also found that inner-city Marines in not only was there an inate sense of danger that helps delineate scenarios but also-what was poorly worded in a report last yr & recv'd alot of flack fr/Liberal PC blogs- a primal sense of territoriality when on patrol that makes them more attuned to when they're unwelcomed no matter how pleasant ppls appearances & demeanor is.
 
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine       1/30/2008 2:52:08 PM

Also its important to understand CH is not a tactical program.  It?s a 3wk course constantly reinforced after that instilling a shift in mentality using tactical applications as a vehicle of understanding.  Much like how the USMC uses Close Order Drill to drive home discipline or how the USMC & other Light Infantry use patrolling to teach small unit leadership.

 
Quote    Reply

Horsesoldier       1/30/2008 6:36:18 PM

Not quite, what the program does is formally delve into and explore something that Savvy Plt Sgts and Cmdrs have noticed & exploited for a long time, inner city kids fr/ violent neighborhoods have had to develop a 6th sense about; danger, where to walk where not to walk, whats in & out of place, shiesty & shady characters.  B/C of this they often see things out of place that most ppl don't see, so they're often asked on patrols, "hey Jones, what do you see that I'm missing."

 

On the flipside Cmdrs have noticed when out on Field Ex's patrolling setting up ambushes whatever, their country boys & I mean the ones fr/ a real rural up bringing...not trailer trash...but the real mountain boys who spent years huniting & trapping are invaluable in patrolling & using the terrain for ambushing.

 



Right, but my point is kids from rough inner city neighborhoods don't have a real, psychic "sixth sense," they're simply attuned to the enviroment they grew up in.  I am not convinced that these observations they're clueing into (conciously and subconciously) are transferable across cultural barriers.  They don't even really transfer really well within the United States -- the clues for imminent danger in a bad part of LA and in a bad part of New York City are not precisely the same.  They're even less identical when you compare LA with, say, Baghdad, or Nairobi, or Kuala Lumpur or Rio down in Brazil.
 
It looks, on paper, like innovative thinking, but I don't think it really works.  Like I said, I think intense debriefing of guys rotating back out of Iraq, plus maybe focused cultural awareness training from natives about how a Baghdad street looks when normal and when rough, etc., would likely pay bigger dividends than finding out how streets looked normal and rough in Gary, Indiana and Miami.
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine       2/1/2008 6:41:13 PM


Right, but my point is kids from rough inner city neighborhoods don't have a real, psychic "sixth sense," they're simply attuned to the enviroment they grew up in.  I am not convinced that these observations they're clueing into (conciously and subconciously) are transferable across cultural barriers.  They don't even really transfer really well within the United States -- the clues for imminent danger in a bad part of LA and in a bad part of New York City are not precisely the same.  They're even less identical when you compare LA with, say, Baghdad, or Nairobi, or Kuala Lumpur or Rio down in Brazil.

It looks, on paper, like innovative thinking, but I don't think it really works.  Like I said, I think intense debriefing of guys rotating back out of Iraq, plus maybe focused cultural awareness training from natives about how a Baghdad street looks when normal and when rough, etc., would likely pay bigger dividends than finding out how streets looked normal and rough in Gary, Indiana and Miami.


1st, your over simplifying it.  Listen to the facts on the ground as they are objectively b4 generalizing it as a whole.
 
They're not portraying it as a 6th sense.  Over the yrs Conway & cmdrs in general have noticed, "Hey, we go thru the same training, but what are these guys seeing that we're not & why." 
 
You mentioned gathering the data fr/ the After Actions which was already being done.  Its fr/ these AAs fr/returning vets that began giving legs to what was previously just an assumption many cmdrs already knew had some truth.  When debriefed why, "I don't know, I felt blah blah blah."
 
Its not long b4 the perceptive cmdr is asking the Q: "WE go thru the SAME training, WHAT are THESE GUYS seeing that WE'RE NOT & WHY."
 
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    HS pls read thru & not skim   2/1/2008 7:47:24 PM
Here is why I say your over simplifying it.  Its not like they just looked at the AAs & said, "We need a program that teaches that, let's make one!"  Like I had already said the program came about as a result of deep discussion & research into:
 
1) Is it real?  2) What is it?  3) Is it quantifiable?  4) Is it tranferable?  5) Is it implementable thru-out the Corps?  6) Can it be instutionalized?
 
They found:  1) It is real. 
2) That its a Mentality, more than just the confidence gained fr/ tactical knowledge or the aggressive nature of the Marine training regement. 
3) I expl'd in a post above how they went Corps wide using video, slides, etc asking what do you see, blah blah, what do you anticipate happening next.  The inner city Marines could correctly anticipate. 
4) Its a learned behavior thats fostered in their enviroment & can be duplicated.
5) Their in the process of putting together now.    6) Yet to be seen.
 
"We go thru the same training, but what are they seeing that we're not?"  They did the research and found that even w/ the same training they see things differently than other Marines b/c they have a different Mentality.
 
Combat Hunter is much more than its new tactics.  It uses the Tactical Applications as a vehicle to foster this mentality & attitude in kids fr/ Springfield, USA the same way gangs and violence foster it to kids the streets.  It'll also foster in the kids fr/ the streets & Springfield the mentality of tracking and stalking Prey(enemy patrols) already known to the kids of hunters.
 
In the same way Close Order Drill fosters Discipline in recruits; & patrolling & controlling a tm/sqd fosters leadership.  If its successful C-H won't be a training course but the Institutionalized way of training in the Marine Corps.
 
Quote    Reply

SCCOMarine    Tactics   2/4/2008 5:19:36 PM
I kind of got got side-tracked by the overall goal of C-H. 
 
The Tactical goal of Combat Hunter is to enhance the Observation, Tracking, and Stalking skills of the Infantryman to a level on par w/ the Basic Scout/Sniper, and bring their Reporting, Patrolling, and Ambushing skills on par w/the Basic Reconnaissanceman.
 
There's also a portion of C-H that is designed to improve Shot Placement on a Moving Target.  This begins w/skeet shooting to improve instinct and reflexive shooting and then works towards rifle shot.
 
I'll try to find the articles I've on this.
 
Quote    Reply
1 2



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics