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Subject: US Marine swimming
Yimmy    11/21/2005 9:22:32 PM
I got into a little argument in visiting that chino-defence forum, concerning what you can and can not swim with. I was argueing, that concerning a picture showing Chinese marines in full webbing gear and pack (and no form of floatation device) on fast boats, that if one were to fall overboard he would almost certainly drown. This being on the assumption that his gear weighs at least 30 pounds (probably more), and that by the time he had got it off he would be standing on the bottom. Now, I was told by one poster that he could swim with that weight easily in excess of 20 minutes. I was told by another poster, that US Marines train to swim with over 30 pounds on them. Is this true? I can swim, but I would not call myself a strong swimmer. From the limited fast boat training I have done, I am of the beliefe that fall in with full kit, and thats it, drowned. Am I wrong?
 
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Sam    RE:US Marine swimming   11/21/2005 10:00:12 PM
The packs would be waterproofed. That will provide some floatation. Yes the USMC practices swimming with a pack. Actually more drownproofing than swimming. Also during small boat ops, everyone had a PFD on.
 
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Yimmy    RE:US Marine swimming   11/21/2005 10:04:51 PM
So, they train using their pack as a flotation device, rather than just swimming with weights strapped to them?
 
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Carl S    RE:US Marine swimming   11/21/2005 10:33:55 PM
Yes to both. When I went through recruit basic in 1974 we had to enter water with the field uniform and boots, remove the uniform and make air pockets in it to help float. I think we were required to stay in the water an hour this way. I had to do this again at some point during the next two years of my service. In 1982 at officers school there was a more elaborate drill where we rigged our packs to make them water resistant and had to swim about with them & a full load of weapons ect... for a hour. While I and most Marines were simply required to float about in the water or an hour, those with extra training, such as in the reconissance companys, trained to make little rafts from their packs and swim across rivers lakes and deep marshes pushing this bundle with their weapon atop. Water proofing the backpacks is standard when preparing to move from ship to shore. Some individuals or groups dont do this, but its foolish as accidents happen & boats or assualt vehicals capsize in the water. Sometimes we had lifejackets available when moving ship to shore, other times not. I never saw any identifiable pattern to their presence or absence.
 
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bunkerdestroyer    RE:US Marine swimming   11/22/2005 7:09:04 PM
carl-s hit it on the head...since the doctrine is amphibious in nature, swimming survival is essential-I'm sure anyone that reads this site/thread is familiar with marines drowning in the pacific and soldiers drowning off normady when they went in to deep.... heck, the marine corps taught me how to swim much, much better... If ya do what ya your taught, it works like a charm, esp if ya naturally swim like a rock Semper Fi
 
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Carl S    RE:US Marine swimming   11/22/2005 10:12:58 PM
I do have to note there were the 5% who just could not float. Either from pigheadedness or some bizarre body density thing they could not stay on the surface six seconds let alone sixty minutes.
 
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AussieEngineer    RE:US Marine swimming   11/22/2005 11:03:55 PM
Sounds like they needed to eat some burgers to fatten up :) It's pretty impressive that you can swim with all that gear. I can float in the surf with boardies and a rashy on for hours but I don't think I could do it with boots, a gun and a backpack.
 
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EW3    RE:US Marine swimming - Carl S    11/22/2005 11:35:38 PM
The condition that 5% have is known as negative bouyancy. When I was in the Navy I used to just about have it. I was a very marginal swimmer, as I was very skinny. Barely got out of bootcamp. Then in SERE I got waterboarded a few times, and ever since then I stick to snorkling and scuba, as I can't stay afloat for more than a minute on my own. I constantly get kidded about putting on my PFD while I'm still driving to Marblehead ;)
 
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bunkerdestroyer    RE:US Marine swimming   11/23/2005 7:15:03 PM
This in general is not ment to keep you alive forever-like in the pacific when sometimes crews were afloat for 2-3-4days at a time....Then you have to worry about swells...... Basically, if your going to shore and your amtrack sinks-which a few have, IF IF IF IF IF you manage to make it out AND your gear is packed properly, you should float up. But that is in the text book. Reality and a few unfortunate souls might suggest otherwise. I'm glad I, nor any of my friends ever had to test the theory..... -Though I will say, I did not sink when I was in the pool............
 
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Carl S    RE:US Marine swimming   11/24/2005 7:58:56 AM
Circa 1983 in West Pacific (Phillipines I think) a amphtrack went off the ships ramp with floor drains unsecured, and went to the bottom rather like a rock. All passengers & crew made it the 10 meters to the surface ok. But the crew chief may have been lynched later. Last incident like that I heard of.
 
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bunkerdestroyer    RE:US Marine swimming   11/24/2005 11:51:04 PM
thats a good deal-I heard something like that as well, but I can imagine the sceen-an amtrack and 20-24 fully equitped marines+crew trying to get out when it starts to sink and trying to get the top hatches open under that water pressure.... EGADS......what a horrible thought..
 
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