I think you should consider that basic training will effect some people more than others. I wouldn't say basic training in the West is becoming easier as such (compared to say 20 years ago), but it has certainly changed. Your average infantry grunt these days may miss out on a lot of the physical beastings of old, but on the other hand they have to be far more intelligent, dealing with more advanced technology such as personal role radios, night vision, thermal vision, manpads etc etc which were far less heard of in the past.

in bootcamp, intelligence has little to do with it. It is to break down your individuality and trys to teach you to be a team player. At the same time, it trys to instal in you a Espirit DE Corps.....Trying to get you intune with the possible dangers and the requirement for you to be willing to sacrifice your life for your country, but mainly your fellow marine/and to go in harms way, something most people try to avoid while doing that, the Indoctrinate you to marine life, laws, regulations/marine/military life. It is a snap shot of what you will experience. Then it attemps to get the weak stronger and the out of shape in better shape. It wont and cant get an inshape person more fit It gives you a taste and trys to make you part of the group and show you the path In the past, when you got the punks, stubborn, and the idiots, alot of the time, force(ass-beatings) were necessary to break open that shell and get to the inner person. Today, that is seen as brutal and now they want to hold your hand more. It is regulated by the civilians who have little concept of what is the purpose of boot camp. I dont advocate a forced march in which 6 or so die, beating the crap out of several recruits, but I do fully and whole heartidly support the slap on the back of the head, a kick in the but, a 'palm' slap/strike to the for head-kinda like "hellooooo...mcfly, anyone home....?" type action...etc.... sometimes force or pain complaince is needed when you have a 18 yr old punk or mommas boy who has been a baby or a piece of sh** for 18 yrs and now everyone expecets the marines to unfuc* what the family and the kid had worked on for 18 yrs...... so, I would say boot camp is getting softer, less physical,but until you go to your technical school, intelligence has little to do with it, and by the way yimmy..... though they may be sophiscated equiptment, it is irrevelant unless you are actually FIXING the piece-and that is a technical job not for the average person. It takes very little brain power to put a nvg on, turn the switch and open your eyes. It may be harder to take a battery off and put a new one in when it is low, but I would assume any 5 yr old could. the airdefense weapons....well, (like a stinger or so) stick it on your shoulder after you hook this and that up/power, face the threat direction, get a lock and squeeze the trigger....not to complicated..... any more tech, and you get training, but only the dumbest 10% can be trained. so, with the exception of perhaps fixing an engine/a nuclear tech, etc...few jobs in the military for the enlisted-even officers require more than basic brain functions....

I don't buy the "basic training breaks you down" stuff.... can anyone honestly say they were broken by basic? I would imagine they must be a very weak minded person if they were. The bullsh*t phase of training is there to install discipline and respect for the rank structure, it doesnt break anybody (apart from those who are forced to quit).

When I went through USMC basci in 1974 we were told it had been made easier, that any sissy could now get through it, that the DIs could not "harden" us as in the good old days. A decade later the younger Marines complained that basic had become too easy and asked me about the old days when I went through & how hard it was then. When I neared retirement the same line was going around, still. And I am hearing it again now.

"installs discipline" -thus it breaks down the old you and tries to forge a new "you" break down does not necessarily mean mentally. It breaks down your selfishness, individuality, stereotypes, etc...and then it molds you (tries)to the aspects of a military life

Carl S, I read the book "Boot" which was written by a former Marine DI. His book was written after his observations about one particular class of Marine recruits at Parris Island in 1985. At this time (and I believe in the 20 years since, it has actually gotten softer) the DIs were not allowed to punch, hit, kick, or otherwise "aggressively touch" (I guess like poking an extended index finger into the chest of a particularly stupid recruit) any of the recruits, and furthermore, they were not even allowed to cuss in their presence! The author was incredulous at the changes which really defanged the DIs and turned the power structure on its head. The DI's - mostly exemplary Marines of the highest caliber - were running scared from the possibility of some punk recruit making an allegation of abuse. Like cops who get accused of police brutality, even if the investigation clears them, it ultimately mars and maybe ends their careers. As far as whether the recruits themselves thought it was tough, a huge percentage of them thought the training was too easy, and this was true even though the author observed that a goodly portion of the recruits, when they initially arrived, were typical American teenagers - overweight, out of shape, cigarette smoking, McDonald's eating, video game playing bums. These weren't former high school athletes on the average.

"The DI's - mostly exemplary Marines of the highest caliber - were running scared from the possibility of some punk recruit making an allegation of abuse" When I did my reserve recruits course (just a series of weekends and evenings with a two week affair), one of our instructors had been removed from regular army recruits courses through allegations of bullying, and given to us. His wife had recently left him also. He had a 'glowing' personality. :D

Yimmy..the items you quoted sound like the same complaints from 1974. Infact the DIs were not allowed to touch us then & were not to cuss us either. Nevertheless they trained us well, although I did not realize it at the time. I'm not sure how the physical abuse thing remains equated to quality training, or tough training. It may relate to a desire to become someone who can be brutal and vicious. Judging from the accounts of the Marines in Falluja the ability of rifle squads to effciently gun their way through a city was unhampered by not being slapped or cussed by a DI. Back in the early 20th Century fistfighting & drunken brawls were a daily occurance for most working men. Boxing was a common sport, beatings were a coomon form of dicipline for children. The military NCO of 1905 had to be good with his fists and had to use them to maintain his authority. Why how & when this changed I cant articulate here, but it has.