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Subject: Gasmask removal question
ZackG    5/17/2006 10:30:28 PM
a buddy of mine who is preparing to leave for iraq was told by a superior that in the event of a "gas gas gas" the lowest ranked marine around has to remove his mask first to see if the conditions are safe... is this true or was he being BSed?
 
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shek    RE:Gasmask removal question   5/17/2006 10:33:54 PM
In the absence of working detection systems, then you choose the least mission essential person in the unit to test the air. So, it's similar to a bear attack - you don't have to be the fastest person in your group; you just can't be the slowest! Tell your friend to make sure he's got an important job and not to be on the 1SG's sh!tlist.
 
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Tiber1    RE:Gasmask removal question   5/19/2006 4:15:50 PM
Oh ya, this is true. I remember once as a private having to do this on a exercise. Damn Sgt maced me once I took the mask off. I got revenge by taking his filters out a few weeks later right before he went into the gas room. My arms got a lot stronger as a result, so it was a win win situation all around!
 
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ZackG    RE:Gasmask removal question   5/21/2006 10:02:43 PM
well...makes sense i guess.
 
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Lawman    RE:Gasmask removal question   5/24/2006 4:51:49 AM
This would only happen if everything has gone very badly wrong! In this situation, it is almost inconcievable that anyone would have to be the 'canary'!
 
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Thomas3    RE:Gasmask removal question   5/24/2006 6:02:19 AM
As an old NBC instructor: If you don't have detection gear - you don't remove your mask if some of the nasty stuff is in the area. One breath of nervegas fumes is deadly. There are some little plastic things you wave around to detect nervegas - cheap and easy to use. Secondly why use "canaries": Look at wildlife around you: Cows lying on the back with all four hooves jittering in the, birds keep falling from the sky - they are a broad hint that something is wrong. I've allways detested the hazing that sadistic NCO's use NBC training for. That marine sergeant that mazed you should have been disciplined - so should (and were you) you tampering with his NBC-gear. Maze is solely a an aid to detect if your gasmask is tight enough and I consider the training value in other contexts as very marginal: Either you cannot detect gas by smell early enough, then you are dead or a casulty. Or if you can detect it with your senses, you are not in doubt. Another thing about maze: You get conditioned to it. Still these many years after I am not affected after the day when I inadvertenly sprayed with the nozzle the wrong way. It wasn't the blinding (if you stay calm and let the tears wash it out, it's no big deal), it was the stinging when I washed my face a couple of hours later. To this day I can rub my eyes ith raw onion without any effect. For an infantry man poisongas is just one of those things where act as any other danger: snipers, booby-traps: Suspicion, caution and common sense.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Gasmask removal question   5/24/2006 6:54:14 AM
In the UK the "sniff test", consisting of two pte's looking into each others eyes as they briefly break the seal of their respirators is common practice, even when the proper detection equipment is available. It would be stupid for everybody to de-mask at the same time just to all bite the big one because their equipment was faulty in its readout.
 
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Thomas3    RE:Gasmask removal question   5/24/2006 8:42:33 PM
I would still say: Why use each other when there are lots of other animals. Nervegas is an irreversible acetylcholineesterase inhibitor which in pratical terms mean that they work on everything that has a nervous system - including insects. If attacked and confronted with dead animals you want/need to remove the mask then my advise is: If at all possible leave the premises and seek a place where the little bunnies are frolicing before you remove your mask even in the event of a negative test (to avoid false negative). If you have to stay where you are then keep the mask on untill trained personel tell you all clear - without their mask on.
 
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Carl S    RE:Gasmask removal question   5/26/2006 11:23:56 PM
I also supervised NBC training in the Marines. The canary techniques was part of the formal teaching plan. My MOS trained NBC NCO was also taught this technique in school. It was a technique of last resort. After the wild life had long died, after the detection devices indicated clear, after the squad had departed the contaminated zone. As described above the canry techniques is a story for frightening recruits. Now lets take this up a level. After your squad is clear of a chemical attack zone what then? Your mask, protective clothing, weapons, and other equipment is likely covered with the poisionous residue of the attack. How do you get rid of this without contact with the remaining poison? Thomas no doubt knows the answer. I had to be able to accomplish this with an entire battalion of artillery.
 
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Tiber1    RE:Gasmask removal question   5/30/2006 6:47:55 PM
Thomas: it was kind of a special case. I was a cherry private and it was pretty much hazing. The sgt was a prankster and found the can lying around the parking lot that morning. He was planning on just spraying a bit around to mess with me. He thought it was a mist, but it was a stream and when he did it, he managed to spray it straight into the gap between my cheek and the mask. He was looking away and didn't realize he'd gotten it into my mask, so he wouldn't let me remove it until we'd finished the test and I was too cherry to not follow orders. He got chewed out hard for it and I got a lot of cred for sticking through the whole procedure with a mask full of mace. My revenge a few weeks later was instigated by my platoon sgt and our top. My team and most of the company nco's were waiting to go into the room. My sgt borrowed a paper from someone and went off to the can (he was notorious for taking forever in the can) and told me to watch his gear. Soon as he left either my top or platoon sgt said he was a brave man to leave me watching his gear. One of them said I should do something… He was the company prankster and most of them owed him. They all were telling me do to different things. The least destructive I thought was to just remove his filters… I gave them to my platoon sgt and said I’d found them! We then had to line up to go in. We left his gear behind with another group. My sgt came running up as we entered. He never had time to check, nor notice that all the nco’s were cracking up. Inside, they didn’t know who he was or what was going on, so the instructors wouldn’t let him out immediately. When the rest of us got out, my sgt was waiting outside, still coughing. He rushed up looking to swing on me or something, when my platoon sgt saved my butt. He’d pulled out the filters, stated that “private Tiber1 found his filters” and started to chew him out for “losing” his filters and not taking care of his gear. Top got involved too. It was pretty funny. I think they got pay back for all his past jokes out of it. At the end of the day, all that happened to me was that every time my Sgt walked by me or opened his mouth; I had to do 50… He kept that up for about 3 weeks.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Gasmask removal question   5/30/2006 7:20:31 PM
"Your mask, protective clothing, weapons, and other equipment is likely covered with the poisionous residue of the attack. How do you get rid of this without contact with the remaining poison?" Don't American soldiers use DKP 1/2? Surely you have ways od decontaminating yourself as SOP's without needing to use the showers?
 
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