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Subject: Question For Marines here
Claymore    10/29/2007 2:11:32 AM
Some of the Marines here mention how diverse and adaptable the Marines are. I am sure If I was a Marine i would too. But I am curious what you guys feel the Army does better in terms of certain missions and how you see their role. Is their little respect for the job they are doing in A-Stan and Iraq or do you think they are doing a good job.
 
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ambush       10/29/2007 11:21:04 PM

Some of the Marines here mention how diverse and adaptable the Marines are. I am sure If I was a Marine i would too. But I am curious what you guys feel the Army does better in terms of certain missions and how you see their role. Is their little respect for the job they are doing in A-Stan and Iraq or do you think they are doing a good job.


Speaking as a fomre Marine I can say that the Army is better at some missions than the Marines and the Corps is better than the Army for others. 
 
 Most of this has to do with organizationand and equipment . The Corps can do Mech/Armor thing but not as wll as the Army.  The Corps can only compensate so much for its lack of Armor with its organoc airpower. For al the talk about combined Arms, dismounted Infantry remains the primaryy combat arm of the Corps.
 
 The suggstion that the Corps should concetrate on the Afghanistan and Army  Iraq makes  sense when you consider the organization, equipment and doctrine of each service.
 
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Claymore       10/30/2007 1:37:31 AM
Where does that leave the Light Infantry of th US army (and Airborne)? Those seem to be the most effective right now in and around Baghdad. It is mostly 10th mountain, 82nd airborne, and 173rd airborne brigade in A-stan at the moment.
 
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SCCOMarine       10/30/2007 3:08:41 AM
No there is no disrespect of the Army.  I have worked w/ many Army Units.  I loved the SF guys.  But if your referring to what I wrote, I wrote it b/c was true, it depicts how intense shit was in Al Anbar at the time.
 
For those that dont know the Marines were requested by the Army to return to Iraq to specifically take down Al Anbar in Nov 03 after the Marines had permanently left Iraq in Sept 03.  Going May 03-Sep w/out 1 Marine Combat death when the Army was losing 40-50/mth.  Marines were doing SASO patrols in S. Iraq w/no body armor.
 
Marines were sent to Al Anbar 800mi from the Sea, during its most violent time, by request. 
 
Am I talking bad about the Army for saying this?  No, it was the facts on the ground. 
 
It shows another dimension of how the MC operates and shows the trust the Army Commanders have for the fact that Marines Get results, and we did.
 
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SCCOMarine       10/30/2007 3:29:08 AM
PPL on this site act like I should be ashamed to say that shit. 
 
The war in I raq was going to shit until Petraeus used the tactics the Marines developed in Al Anbar.  Disbursing into smaller units that actually live eat and sleep in the local communities, not live &patrol fr/ large bases.  Build up the local security by living in their outposts and fight side by side w/ them until they get it.  Form the local males into "Neighborhoodwatch-type units" and give them a sense of pride.
 
These weren't things the Americans came up w/ it was the Marine Corps.
 
But if I draw the distinction to ppl who think the Army and Marine Corps are the same, then I'm the bad guy.
 
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SCCOMarine       10/30/2007 3:35:30 AM

Where does that leave the Light Infantry of th US army (and Airborne)? Those seem to be the most effective right now in and around Baghdad. It is mostly 10th mountain, 82nd airborne, and 173rd airborne brigade in A-stan at the moment.

 
Perfect example.  Theyre effective right now around Baghdad b/c theyre using tactics developed by Marines in Al Anbar.
 
Its not to take away fr/ those units but it was the tactical change that has brought their recent success.
 
A tactical change Marine commanders have begged the Army to make for 3yrs .
 
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SCCOMarine       10/30/2007 3:56:30 AM
Another thing you need to understand is we are organized to accomplish completely different missions.  The Army, as a whole, is designed to fight gound Wars.  The MC, as a whole, is an Expeditionary Strike Force; the only service directly under the authority of the US President.
 
They are organized to do large scale, long term high intensity war, better than we are.  We do short term high intensity and long term low intensity better then them.
 
But w/ that said the other services & Armed Forces are trying to move into areas that were unique  innovations of the USMC, like our Combined Arms ability or our Expeditionary capabilties.
 
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Claymore       10/30/2007 7:24:30 PM
Interesting. What do you think was the reason that lead to this error in tactics? The US Army just patrolled places to infrequently and let insurgents build up versus keeping a constant eye on them?

Also, how do you think what is going on in Iraq should be finished?

 
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ambush       10/31/2007 9:06:17 PM

No there is no disrespect of the Army.  I have worked w/ many Army Units.  I loved the SF guys.  But if your referring to what I wrote, I wrote it b/c was true, it depicts how intense shit was in Al Anbar at the time.

 

For those that dont know the Marines were requested by the Army to return to Iraq to specifically take down Al Anbar in Nov 03 after the Marines had permanently left Iraq in Sept 03.  Going May 03-Sep w/out 1 Marine Combat death when the Army was losing 40-50/mth.  Marines were doing SASO patrols in S. Iraq w/no body armor.

 

Marines were sent to Al Anbar 800mi from the Sea, during its most violent time, by request. 

 

Am I talking bad about the Army for saying this?  No, it was the facts on the ground. 

 

It shows another dimension of how the MC operates and shows the trust the Army Commanders have for the fact that Marines Get results, and we did.


Intersting source for the Army request?
 
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SCCOMarine       11/1/2007 1:53:20 AM

Intersting source for the Army request?



Why ambush?  Marine Units had Permanently left Iraq in Sep '03.  Turning over authority to the Multi-National Force.
 
By the end of Oct '03 US deaths jumped fr/ a avg of about 50/mth to 87 in Oct.  The Marines were requested to return in Nov '03, the majority of their gear was still at sea.
 
They weren't requested to give relief in an area that more complimented Marine capabilities, they were requested to take on the most violitile province in Iraq 800mi fr/ the Sea.  The farthest an Army command had ever assigned a Marine Combat command.
 
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ambush       11/1/2007 2:31:37 PM



Intersting source for the Army request?




Why ambush?  Marine Units had Permanently left Iraq in Sep '03.  Turning over authority to the Multi-National Force.

 

By the end of Oct '03 US deaths jumped fr/ a avg of about 50/mth to 87 in Oct.  The Marines were requested to return in Nov '03, the majority of their gear was still at sea.

 

They weren't requested to give relief in an area that more complimented Marine capabilities, they were requested to take on the most violitile province in Iraq 800mi fr/ the Sea.  The farthest an Army command had ever assigned a Marine Combat command.


No that I doubt you but if I am going to quote this , I would like to have a source.
 
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