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Subject: Russian T90 vs. US M1A2 Abrams
achtpanz    6/14/2004 3:59:14 AM
Russian T90 vs American M1A2 Abrams - Which is better? If these tanks fought in battle, which would suffer more casualties, which one is superior? What are their advantages? Any information would be helpful.
 
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SantaClaws       3/30/2011 3:58:22 AM
That "random" website has this on the bottom
 
"This information was found in and is from an entry in Wikipedia, the leading user-contributed encyclopedia."
 
Which is fine for me, but poor Herald won't be. Because he quoted the same thing from wiki. And the big part he left out was...
 

"The bore to barrel length ratio is called caliber in naval gunnery, but is called length in army artillery."
 
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heraldabc       3/30/2011 3:59:35 AM
Its the barrel (dxl) dimensions of the tube (caliber), not the projectile dimensions and its propellant case if it is a fixed round, Santa. As I said, my thing is rockets, but even I know that much about how guns are described and I know why. If you don't think propellant work time is important, then you don't understand why just bore size is an incomplete description, and why artillerists do not use it as the measure when they speak of caliber.        
OK, then show me a single source. What you're talking about is cartridge when you incorporate length. I really want to see your source because I guarantee NO ONE uses length in describing caliber. Burden of proof is on you.


I used the correct terminology. Bore x length is the standard artillery description of a gun's caliber-even in the US Army.



 



You must have had poor teachers, but that has been apparent for awhile.



 



H. 




 
You want to negate me, that is YOUR job, not mine (scientific method, look it up.). I just negated you in four ways by the way.
 
Herald 
 
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SantaClaws       3/30/2011 4:00:50 AM










The Apache is quiet enough that at high altitude they might not know he was there.
 

If you end up in flight school you'll learn in BWS how to mask your sound by flying downwind etc etc. You can sneak up on people and be VERY close without them hearing you,
 
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heraldabc       3/30/2011 4:01:30 AM
Also, why are you using Wiki? Not cool.
 
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SantaClaws       3/30/2011 4:02:56 AM
Pretty hard to prove a negative. But I used your source that you omitted the pertinent info.
Its the barrel (dxl) dimensions of the tube (caliber), not the projectile dimensions and its propellant case if it is a fixed round, Santa. As I said, my thing is rockets, but even I know that much about how guns are described and I know why. If you don't think propellant work time is important, then you don't understand why just bore size is an incomplete description, and why artillerists do not use it as the measure when they speak of caliber.      
 

You want to negate me, that is YOUR job, not mine (scientific method, look it up.). I just negated you in four ways by the way.

 


Herald 


 
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SantaClaws       3/30/2011 4:05:12 AM
What difference does it make since your opening quote to challenge me about the definition of caliber was essentially a paraphrase of the first paragraph in wiki?
Also, why are you using Wiki? Not cool.

 
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SantaClaws       3/30/2011 4:12:03 AM
You're quite the hypocrite Herald to criticize me for using wiki when you had this on page 50.


In some examples, (warship artillery, main tank guns), "caliber" is used to describe the barrel length as multiples of the bore diameter. A "5-inch 50 caliber" gun has a bore diameter of 5 inches (127 mm) and a barrel length of 50 times 5 inches = 250 inches (6.35 m).


Which is essentially taken from here, 4th paragraph down.
 
h**p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliber
 
Yet, you conveniently threw in "main tank guns" when it was not part of the description. And don't tell me you wrote that first quote yourself and it just so happens that wiki had the same exact thing.
 
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heraldabc       3/30/2011 10:07:16 AM
Wrongo Jocko. Nice try though.    
Pretty hard to prove a negative. But I used your source that you omitted the pertinent info.

Its the barrel (dxl) dimensions of the tube (caliber), not the projectile dimensions and its propellant case if it is a fixed round, Santa. As I said, my thing is rockets, but even I know that much about how guns are described and I know why. If you don't think propellant work time is important, then you don't understand why just bore size is an incomplete description, and why artillerists do not use it as the measure when they speak of caliber.      


 



You want to negate me, that is YOUR job, not mine (scientific method, look it up.). I just negated you in four ways by the way.



 






Herald 








Next time READ.
 
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Nichevo       3/30/2011 11:29:40 AM


























Language problem - you don't understand what I am saying.  Does the Czar break into the house of the moujik to steal his valeniki?  Does Bill Gates rob homeless people?  Anything Russia has that we want, we wouldn't steal we just buy it.  Nobody is migrating from NATO countries to Russia seeking work (or welfare, lol)






 These words do not change the fact what would happen to USA if it attacks Russia.




You're like an ugly girl worrying about being raped by the captain of the football team.






So nothing, no history from WWII on, will prove this other than NATO invading Russia and smashing you to pieces?  What would convince you if you were to have an open mind?  You are a victim of Nasha lutcha.  Don't you wonder why more and more countries buy American and those who buy Rus are usually evil and/or rather poor?



 



You just sound as another sick arrogant kid.


You mean, I am telling you something you don't want to hear, and you lack the courage to deal with it head-on.  Like Stalin getting drunk in his bunker in the opening days of Operation Barbarossa.   Equally you disserve the Rodina.










A little honesty from you, I hope.  Or are you really so happy with Russia that you think you can't improve?

 

 No, its you who needs improvement, you sound too much self confident and jealous.




This is EXACTLY my point.  Jealous of WHAT?!?!?!?!? 
 
There is not one single thing in Russia I want!  What, what would we invade you for? 
 
Oil?  We buy it.  Gold?  We buy it.  Vodka?  We buy it.  Women?  We buy them - or rather, they come running freely because it is so much better here than it is in Russia.  Any rare item of technology which we consider worthy of use?  We buy it. 
 
We don't have to TAKE anything.


If you like - since the moujik craves the knout but cannot live on knout alone - I will throw you a bone.  I do believe that in Putin you have a man who wants the best for his country and is not ashamed of it.  You have some intelligent (if shoert-sighted) decision-makers in government.  You are not enmeshed in political correctness.  Your women know how to treat a man :->.
 
Those are things of which I am sometimes jealous, especially now.  
 
Gotta go - dad in hospital.  ColdStart, try to believe that I wish to help you.  
 
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ColdStart    2 Nichevo   3/30/2011 12:43:54 PM
Yoy are sick, mentally ill and disabled arrogant person. And your comments which are full of hate to my nation never gona make me weaker, it makes YOU weaker and shows how you try to show your non-existent superiority.
 
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