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Subject: Prepositioning on Ships
Roman    8/25/2004 9:12:04 PM
I am wondering how much equipment can be prepositioned on one of the prepositioning ships. I would guess the ships used are probably huge and each can probably hold tens of thousands of tonnes of cargo, which is probably enough equipment for a heavy battalion or a medium regiment or a light brigade including enough supplies to enable the unit to fight for 30 days. That, though, is just my guess... Another question on my mind is whether these ships are not excessively vulnerable, as it seems to me that a potential enemy could track them and sink them relatively easily with torpedoes or mines or anti-ship missiles, as they likely have no protection against these weapons at all and carry no weapons of their own to fight back. Furthermore, I am wondering how quickly can these ships be used to respond to a crisis situation - that means how quickly can they move and unload as well as how long it takes to organize and ready the equipment carried for combat. Last but not least, I am wondering how many prepositioned ships does the U.S. possess and in what location and whether other nations also use prepositioning ships and if so where and in what locations. If anybody knows the answers to these questions I would appreciate it.
 
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leesea    RE:Prepositioning Ships    8/26/2004 2:38:42 AM
Prepo ships vary in size and hence cargo capacity. There was once a C-9 LASH which carried 46,00 tons of ammo! One MPS squadron (5 or 6 ships) supports a Marine task force of 13,000 carries about 100,000 measurment tons of cargo (all sorts). Any merchant ship is vunerable, but the Navy tries to send along escort ships. I wouldn't say they have "no" onboard protection, can't say more. Prepo ships on-station are ready 24/7. Discharging cargo takes 3 to 5 days depending on port/military stevedores. Really getting the troops there to marry up with cargo is more a limiting factor. Goto: http://www.msc.navy.mil/factsheet/apf.asp MSC's PM for Prepo website, ship numbers vary from about 30 to 37 at its highest.
 
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Roman    RE:Prepositioning Ships    8/26/2004 6:27:21 AM
Great Post - many thanks! So it appears that an MSP squadron carries enough to equip a reinforced medium brigade including support elements (that's what I would say a 16,000 [13,000-19,000] men Marine task amounts to) or alternatively a baby medium division without support elements and support them for 30 days. That is pretty impressive. I am glad to hear that the ships have escorts (I thought they just sit their on their own and perhaps pretend to be merchant ships) and their own defences of some sort. It is probably indeed for the best that the US Navy classifies these defences - no sense giving the enemy any useful info! Furthermore, I am wondering how quickly can these ships be used to respond to a crisis situation - that means how quickly can they move and unload as well as how long it takes to organize and ready the equipment carried for combat. How fast are these ships? Say a crisis beaks out close to their station, but they still need to sail there - what is their speed? Also, can they offload in the absence of port facilities (I am guessing not) or in poor/damaged (perhaps damaged because of the crisis) port facilities? And after they unload, how long does it take to make the brigade combat ready? 30-37 ships is a decent number - from the info you gave me it amounts to 5-7 brigades of Marines - a potent force indeed. Is the location of stations classified or would it be possible to inform me of the general place where these ships are pre-positioned (well, I am sure the exact location is classified for a very good reason - I am thinking more of the general region, such as "Persian Gulf, or "near Diego Garcia" or some such)? And my final question - do other nations also use prepositioning ships and if so how many do they have and where? Thanks again!
 
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AlbanyRifles    RE:Prepositioning Ships    8/26/2004 9:48:27 AM
Roman The ships are a mix of Army and Marine equipment sets. There are also some ships which carry prepositioned ammunition for them as well as the Air Force. Diego Garcia is a big "parking place" (sorry, I'm an Army guy!) and I think Guam (please correct me leesea). 3 ID used one brigade set worth of equipment from the prepos last year for OIF.
 
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Jack Tar    RE:Prepositioning Ships    8/26/2004 10:12:29 AM
Leesea (or anyone else that can answer), I'm hoping you could answer a couple of quick questions? I visited 'The Footprint of Freedom' a while back (1990!) and this was the first time I became aware that the US prepositioned ships. I never saw any movement aboard these vessels during the few days I was there. Are crews 'prepositioned' as well (on shore bases nearby/onboard?), or do they get flown out in a crisis. If the ships aren't crewed permanantly, I guess they are inspected every now and then?(Daily, Weekly?) Thanks for any info.
 
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Roman    RE:Prepositioning on Ships    8/29/2004 6:35:25 PM
Two more questions to add to my previous barrage: 1) How many preositioning ships out of the total 30-37 are generally on station at any one time? 2) What is the general 'deployment' pattern these ships follow? (I mean something along the lines of - 6 months at sea, 6 month maintanance - supplies maintained every 3 months and replaced every 5-10 years)
 
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Roman    RE:Prepositioning on Ships    8/29/2004 6:38:06 PM
"Roman The ships are a mix of Army and Marine equipment sets. There are also some ships which carry prepositioned ammunition for them as well as the Air Force. Diego Garcia is a big "parking place" (sorry, I'm an Army guy!) and I think Guam (please correct me leesea). 3 ID used one brigade set worth of equipment from the prepos last year for OIF." Cool - I thought the ships mostly carry marine equipment. So it appears, that the ships carrying Army equipment carry enough to equip/supply 1 brigade - same as the marine ones, which makes sense. Was it a heavy brigade?
 
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leesea    RE:Prepositioning on Ships    9/1/2004 12:49:06 PM
Roman, goto this link for the current breakdown of Afloat Prepositioning Force ships: http://www.msc.navy.mil/pm3/ Generally, the MPS are for Marine tactical equipment while the LMSRs carry Army gear, others are for bulk sustainment supplies such as ammo and fuel. Navy speak: DGAR is a large lagoon with deep water anchorages for many ships! I don't know difference between light and heavy, Army vs. Marine brigades. I just know prepo ships!
 
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leesea    RE:Prepositioning Ships & Crews   9/1/2004 12:54:03 PM
whoa nelly!! Since the prepo ships are ready to steam away on a 24/7 basis, who do you think operates them!!>!>? Their merchant crew serve 4 to 6 months ONBOARD and then are rotated as is usual practice in the merchant marine. The prepos cargo is maintained in STORAGE, why mess with it until it is needed at the discharge port? The ships and their cargo come back to CONUS for scheduled maintenance periods.
 
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leesea    RE:Prepositioning Ships    9/1/2004 12:59:19 PM
Most ships make 15 to 20 knots, then its simply at speed/distance/time equation to figure out how fast they can get there. Ships are in full operating status - 24/7/365 ready to go wherever! but usually something in-theater. Generally a squadron of ships may be self-sustaining for dischage at limited ports, BUT they try to go to fullup ports for speedier cargo ops.
 
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Roman    RE:Prepositioning on Ships    9/3/2004 5:29:15 AM
That is great stuff leesea and logistics is essential to winning wars, so you are doing a great and honourable job as evidenced by great performance in recent conflicts.
 
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