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Subject: US closure of Philippine bases : good or bad
xylene    9/13/2008 3:54:34 PM
The US had major bases in the Philippines until the early 1990's. Subic Bay was one of the largest naval bases in the world. Clark Air Base was severely damgaged due to a volcanic eruption. Mixed in was the politics. In hindsight, could the US have retained the bases? Would it have been worth it to retain the bases? Also had the US retained those bases may it have altered the current realignment of US forces in the Pacific (i.e. US Marine from Okinawa to Guam ; draw down of forces on South Korea). Lastly, would a larger American presence in the last 15 years have made any difference (pro or con)in development of Philippine government or economy?
 
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Claymore       9/13/2008 5:21:59 PM
I heard that Subic Bay was an amazing facility. People loved it. Good golf courses!
 
I heard similar things about Clark but I do not recall how bad it got messed up. 
 
In short, there are plenty of people that would argue for keeping Subic Bay.
 
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Rykehaven       9/13/2008 8:01:48 PM
xylene said "In hindsight, could the US have retained the bases?"
 
Yes, "but to what end?" is the question.
 
"Would it have been worth it to retain the bases?"
 
Probably not.  The major differences in the negotiations occurred (as usual) during the haggling for funding, wages, maintenance bills, etc.  SOFA (as usual) became a political football with which a foreign government tried to feign outrage while whispering behind the scenes "we won't go after your troops if you give us the money".
 
At root, the main problem was one of attitude.  The Phillipinos imagined that they 'protected' America and that America 'owed' them for it. 

Delusional? - yes, but the Phillipinos are hardly alone among "the allies". 

They pretended that the US Navy needed Subic bay and the Phillipines more than vice versa.  They invented stories that the US kept the Navy there to keep its fashion industry happy.   They also thought highly of themselves believing in their ancestral claim to several rocks (Spratly and others, I think) and the idea that the US needed them to stake a claim to some supposed fisheries or oil resources (We didn't give a sh!t).  There was even a popular claim that we either bombed our own base or caused the volcano to erupt.  Why?  I don't know.  The conspiracy theories at the time were pretty feverish and widespread.
 
Worth it?

No.
 
Also had the US retained those bases may it have altered the current realignment of US forces in the Pacific (i.e. US Marine from Okinawa to Guam ; draw down of forces on South Korea).
 
Probably.
 
It's interesting that almost nobody outside the US defense establishment talks about the realignment in relation to the fate of 363.  It's an inside joke.
 
Look at the history of the US's attempted base withdrawals from South Vietnam, Thailand, South Korea, Japan, etc. even in the last few years.  Alot of this is bureaucratic inertia on the part of the State Department and Washington and the rest is the craven treachery of the locals.
 
Unfortunately, the US is still "obligated" to the "mutual defense" ("mutual" my ass) of these countries, even to the point of nuclear release.  That really warms the heart of us morally-unclean pariahs... especially the FT-Ballistics. 
 
Lastly, would a larger American presence in the last 15 years have made any difference (pro or con)in development of Philippine government or economy?
 
The US should have let the Phillipinos deal with their own insurgents themselves.   Small arms, cyclones, funding, intel techs, guides, advisors, security contractors ... Christ.  The Phillipinos don't belong on our net.  This is a terrorist group that operates solely in the WestPac Rim.  Nothing the State Dpt says will change that.  I understand their ideological brethren target US personel in Bali, but State has really over-reached in pushing this mission.
 
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