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Subject: 9/11.... will we ever know?
Godofgamblers    10/28/2009 7:34:05 AM
I was speaking to two American friends yesterday and asked the simple question, "did the US have advance knowledge of the attack?", and neither could answer. They both admitted that the issue was so convoluted and mired in conspiracy theories that the truth may never be known. We are now getting closer and closer to being a decade after the fact.... is the answer any clearer? My two cents, it really looks like a Pearl Harbor situation: there was knowledge of how and where but not when (actually, PH they knew when but not how or where). All pieces of the jigsaw puzzle that no one could put together in time. Bush was very much like Short and Kimmel whose generally lakadaisical approach filtered down through the ranks.... but there was no malice or conspiracy involved because there was no complete advance knowledge. What are your opinions?
 
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Wicked Chinchilla       10/28/2009 10:12:58 AM
Didnt a report come out that basically validated what you describe as your "two cents?"  I am pretty sure that happened...
 
Either way, if it didnt my opinion echos your own.  Between various pieces of intelligence received through various agencies a good piece of the picture could have been pieced together, and was not.
 
 
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smitty237       10/28/2009 10:43:00 AM
I have never seen any convincing evidence that the country's intelligence agencies had any sort actionable intelligence that would have given prompted them to take any steps that could have prevented 9/11.  After the fact it is easy to point to different things that should have set off alarm bells, but that is with the benefit of hindsight.  Even had the government known that an attack was coming on 9/11, I don't know what they could have done to stop it without a lot of very specific information.  Had they placed Muslims under closer scrutiny in the weeks leading up to it there would have been an outcry, and had they tightened up airport security without telling Americans why the airlines and the passenger who rely on flight to get around the country would have complained.  In the years immediately after 9/11 there were a number of terrorist scares and heightened alerts, and when nothing happened the Dept. of Homeland Security was either accused of using scare tactics or of simply being incompetent.  It became a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. 
 
 
The fact that ten years has passed without any reliable information coming out that the Bush Administration "knew" what was going to happen on 9/11 leads me to believe that it probably isn't there.  Were some mistakes made by the intelligence community?  Most likely, but mistakes, oversights, incompetence, and/or outright stupidity do not a conspiracy make. 
 
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Le Zookeeper    Top 5   10/28/2009 11:01:20 AM
5) It was an internal conspiracy- they knew.
4) The report was available but ignored as improbable
3) TSA was warned, but they held up an old lady for hours, and the hijackers slipped thru
2) The CIA has a gravitational lens that allows usto see in the furture, they knew exact minute detail
1) They misinterpretated the translation and thought somebody was going to hold up a 7/11.
 
GOG there were theories for years and months. The original plan was developed by a Mungiayah of Lebanon (now killed by Mossad) to crash jets above Tel Aviv. No exact details were ever available, but the chatter was higher in August I think. This subject should be put to rest as the overwhelming tragedy obliviates any other pressing discussion on 9/11 besides getting Al Qaida dead or alive.
 
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FJV    Yes they did   10/28/2009 2:08:15 PM
"did the US have advance knowledge of the attack?"
 
Yes the US did have that knowledge. Unfortunately that knowledge was divided into separate pieces of information that had to be pieced together to really know what was going to happen.
 
That was one of the conlusions of the 9/11 commission if I'm not mistaken.
 
Oh and that problem of combining and sharing information has not been solved as far as I know of.
 
 
 
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Lynstyne       10/28/2009 3:37:14 PM
Will we ever know the truth  -   Its highly probable we do    ie the ball got dropped, 2020 hindsight an all that
 
More reaslistically the question is will conspiracy theorists ever accept the truth   if it isnt their version of the truth
 
 
 
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Godofgamblers       10/28/2009 11:36:48 PM
But why didn't heads roll.... i think that's one reason why the public won't let go of the matter..... after Pearl heads rolled, and it was a tighter ship. Same after the Mumbai attacks.... heads rolled and rightly so. Same thing in Indo after the Marriot and Ritz attacks.... It isn't a guarantee that the same mistakes won't happen... but it sure helps!
 

In 2002, FBI agent Coleen Rowley wrote to FBI director Robert Mueller describing her experience working with Minneapolis FBI agents tracking suspected terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui prior to the attacks..[33] She describes how FBI HQ personnel in Washington, D.C. had mishandled and failed to take action on information provided by the Minneapolis Field Office, and had failed to issue a warrant to search Moussaui's computer despite having probable cause.[34] Rowley goes on to describe her superior, Agent Marion "Spike" Bowman, as having ?consistently, almost deliberately thwarted the Minneapolis FBI agents' efforts? to obtain the search warrant. Senator Chuck Grassley later wrote that ?If the application for the FISA warrant had gone forward, agents would have found information in Moussaoui's belongings that linked him ... to a major financier of the hijacking plot". Rowley was credited as a whistleblower and jointly awarded the TIME Magazine "Person of the Year" for 2002. Her testimony to the 9/11 Commission was omitted from their final report.

FBI agent and Al-Qaeda expert John P. O'Neill warned of an Al-Qaeda threat to the United States in 2000. He retired from his position in mid 2001, citing repeated blocking of his investigations of Al Qaeda by FBI officials. After his retirement from the FBI, the World Trade Center hired him as its chief of security. He started work on September 11, 2001; 9/11 rescue workers found his body in a staircase inside the south tower rubble.[35]

"

In 2002, FBI agent Coleen Rowley wrote to FBI director Robert Mueller describing her experience working with Minneapolis FBI agents tracking suspected terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui prior to the attacks..[33] She describes how FBI HQ personnel in Washington, D.C. had mishandled and failed to take action on information provided by the Minneapolis Field Office, and had failed to issue a warrant to search Moussaui's computer despite having probable cause.[34] Rowley goes on to describe her superior, Agent Marion "Spike" Bowman, as having ?consistently, almost deliberately thwarted the Minneapolis FBI agents' efforts? to obtain the search warrant. Senator Chuck Grassley later wrote that ?If the application for the FISA warrant had gone forward, agents would have found information in Moussaoui's belo

 
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TigerzTerrain    The Fog of Perception   10/31/2009 8:10:34 AM

I refuse to allow perception to blind me from reality. I understand how some people think they are supporting a worthwhile cause by indulging the opinions of people like Richard Clarke and the aforementioned whistleblower, however their opinons do not hold up to intense scrutiny.

 

  1. Responsible leaders make phone calls to likeminded coworkers/colleagues and the appropriate tactical law enforcement contingents.

 

  1. Responsible leaders do not put the burden of prevention and determent on the massive and systemic process of world class intelligence agencies (time consuming).

 

  1. Responsible leaders do not use tragedies to promote their personal vanities (fame and wealth at the expense of their institution?s reputation).

 

*Additionally, it is clear that Richard Clarke and the aforementioned whistleblower have attempted no viable or successful means of deterrence concerning Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda network. This is surprising given the celebrity and widespread influence that both of these experts have.

 

 
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