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Subject: If the US Marine Corps, and the French Foreign Legion had a battle, which side would win?
Republican    1/1/2006 4:03:01 AM
I think the Corps would win, but both sides are tough as nails.
 
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GOP       9/24/2006 5:09:44 PM
Who wins? Chuck Norris.
 
Seriously, why is this thing still continuing?   
 
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mough       9/25/2006 11:48:40 AM
who would win?.....the guy selling beer to both sides obviously






silly threads like this lower IQ, be on the look out kids

 
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The Lizard King    American Soldiers are Top Dogs   9/25/2006 12:21:41 PM
You should see how they fight without ROEs...
 
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SCCOMarine    Why is this even a conversation?   9/25/2006 3:03:43 PM
   The Marine Corps has never been defeated on the battlefield, anywhere in history not because it has tanks or 100,000 Marines or because it has a MAGTF. Its b/c of hard discpline, its the fact that they constantly out think every opponent they've faced, revolutionizing combat along the way. 
   In WWI when the Germans were creaming everyone and the world's armies were fighting/dying in waves it was the Marines who utilized the "fire team" tactics that they had invented and perfected in their jungle wars yrs earlier. Also their concept of "Every Marine is a Rifleman" emphasis on rifle discipline was showcased when their fire teams were taking out German MG nests at 800yds all the way up to bayonets without being hit from the use of "bounding" the teams. Destroying the best German division in Belleau Wood without any artillery support and chasing the Germans day and night back behind their lines. The Germans called them TuerfelHunden "Devil Dogs"  b/c they said the Marines screamed and hollered like a pack of wild dogs all night to disorient the Germans while they picked the off.
   In Korea 15,000 Marines broken up into small units spread 5 mountain ridges were surrounded by 80,000 chinese soldiers and another 4 division were in reserve. These Marines fought 100mi to the Korean coast line up and down mountains over 10,000ft in (-50F) weather, b/c 2 US Army Corps of more the 50,000 soldiers each that were covering the Marines 2 rear flanks retreated. In what was called the Great Korean Bug Out the they left their gear, equipment, their dead and even their wounded and ran back across the 38th paralell. It took the Marines almost 2 weeks to fight  south as one unit slaughtering tens of thousand of chinese and koreans on the way. When the get the were ordered to extract on naval transport and blow the harbor. But when they heard of the dead and wounded the Army left behind MajGen Chesty Puller disobeyed the orders and ordered his men to push west to pick up the dead and wound left behind by the army, they were mostly from the 24th inf. div.
   So show some f-ing respect for the USMC and do your homework I could write all day, but it was a US Navy SEAL imbedded in Fallujah doing Special Reconnaissance, LtCmr Mark Divine BUD/S honor grad, who was watching young Marines charging head first into house to house combat. Day and night with little to no sleep for weeks he watched them slaughtering insurgents in 120+ degrees heat, wound bloodied they kept fighting, that made him say "The US Marine Corps is the greatest fighting force in the history of this planet."
   Do a little history and you be the judge?
 
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CommandoGovernor       10/3/2006 1:51:44 AM
The FFL and the Corps are both elite fighting forces and badass. The fact of the matter is the both have a credible history. There is no need to compare the two, because while the Legionnaire does train harder and on average sees more action than a Marine and it was the Marines (blackboots) in Somalia that notably were more feared by rebels although the Legion had been there. We shouldn't compare the two because the USA and France, like it or not, are allies and both the Corps and the Legion have trained together and even fought together. It seems that most of this debate has come down to who is a George Bush loving American and who is a UN supporting, multi-lingual, more historic Frenchman.

In the eye of the public France and the US have their differences and many are offended by those. Those differences are what keeps the balance of Global power under control through a tight-knit allied force.



 
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Ehran       10/3/2006 12:24:03 PM
before you can actually think about this question you need to add a lot more detail about numbers and conditions.  as it is it's rather like asking which is better blue or green.
 
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dirtykraut       10/16/2007 11:09:01 PM
Grenadier, the conditions in the Legion are not any more spartan than the conditions of a USMC grunt living in the barracks. The USMC does not have it easy in terms of living condidtions while deployed or at home. It get's better when you can buy an apartment, or split a small house with a few other Marines. You have to remember, the USMC is 180,000 strong. It is the same size of the entire UK military. But it also has half the budget of the UK military. UK soldiers are known to bitch about the conditions in their armed forces (nothing wrong with that, we do it over here too). Imagine a UK military with half the budget, and you have some idea where the USMC might be in terms of conditions. 
 
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le_corsaire       10/17/2007 8:29:17 AM

Gog.....
one thing that hasnt been addressed is the fact, that while both services are volunteers, most of the FFL is -Foreign....thus, one would have to question loyality to their fellow brother....I assume it is high in the FFL, but unlike an all american unit, One might still have to question....does the Morracan soldier or Nepalese, or Congoese, or Norweigan legionaire care the same for their fellow brother as would a fellow marine? This has alot to do with a units ability to survive in less then austere conditions.

When faced with an overwhelming enemy, I think the FFL was wipped out most of the time. The few Marine examples-(unlike the majority of FFL)Wake-they surrenedered after bloodying the Japensee to fight another die.

So, while their culture may think it is cool to fight to the death in a hopless cause, I would think its better to live to fight another day....

In addition, the FFL was known for ananimity and fighting to the death....What about prowness? ability? Its nice they like to fight or are havens for criminals, but what about their ability to win?
I am not sure about their record for winning and effectiveness-if anyone can help,
But I am sure about the Marine's record-esp at places like KHE SAHN

Sorry, thats complete BS. What you have in the FFL is probably the highest degree of dedication and loyalty you can find and from the "bit of experience" I had and saw you can pretty much forget the "all-American" thing in this comparison. 
"Fight-to-die" has nothing to do with culture. If the regiments have the order to stay and hold under all circumstances they will do it. If they get order to break-out they will do it - in any other case they will try to accomplish their mission and thats it. And I guess thats pretty much what American units are to also expected to do.
 
When faced with an "overwhelming" enemy your cards are always bad, especially if you do not have air support or logistic support. Concerning ability: Give me some examples of where they were wipped out - I guess your answer will be Dien Pien Phu or Navarone. Have you ever talked to a Dien Pien Phu veteran ? Do you really think US troops would have been able keep to Dien Bien Phu with an attack force approx. 500% in people with field artillery hammering down from the hills and jus one flight corridor for logistic support ? Yes, it was probably a wrong strategic decision to place the fortress where it was (obviously a relic of the old Maginot-system which also did not work) - but that is not a fault of the FFL.  What about Kolwezy (an excellent mission) ? What about Tchad ?  Please explain how you can talk about "ability of winning" if you obviously can not even differentiate between "mission objectives" to accomplish and "what you think is better" ? 
 

 
 
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le_corsaire       10/17/2007 8:36:06 AM

I heard a story that happened a long time ago in corsica : there was an
full scale exercize between 2eme REP ( para legionnaires) and the USMC.
It was simple: the legionnaires stood a position on a beach and had the
order to keep it at any cost. The USMC had to invade the beach , with
warbarges.

After they shot their last ammunitions ( white, for sure) , they really
charged the marines with shovels , and the infirmary was full in the
end !!

*lol* ... this was not a long time ago but somewhen in the mid 80s (85 or 86 I guess).

 
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le_corsaire       10/17/2007 9:00:59 AM

Grow up, As much as I respect the FFL the United States Marine Corp would demolish the FFL. In case it may have slipped your attention the USMC have indeginous Fixed Wing and Rotary Wing assests which on there own could give the FFL and very hard time, through in the Artillery and Armour, and I know who my bet is on.

The lack of respect that the USMC seems to be treated with by those who know absolutely nothing about them seriously p!sses me off!!!!!!

It is the same lack of respect that Legion Etrangere is treated here by those who obviously do not know anything about them.
 
A "battle" between USMC and FFL would be absolute nonsense. You also would probably not sent Navy Seals to "battle" a mechanized Division with all their heavy armor and air support.
 
FFL has a specific place in the overall military setup of the French army and what they are supposed to do they typically are able to do (please also not that special forces are not specialized forces) - and they do it usually well with a pretty good success ratio in todays scenarios (there is no sense to discuss about WWII here or political decisions like Algeria . What they are not supposed to do is to fight US (and if so it would probably be a not so very pleasant surprise, despite of fixed and rotary wing, etc,)..
 
What would be by far more interesting, is to compare some of these units in solving specific identical task, with their tactical backgorund.
 
 
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