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Subject: Turkey vs. Greece who better?
Irish Emo dudes    1/4/2007 7:32:39 PM
Greece spends 7 billion on their military and has american weapondry turkey spends 12 billion and also has american weapondry both used f-16's but turkey has ordered 100 f-35's not sure what greece is getting i think eurofighters...whose better militarily and who would win in a war (two different questions) and another thing i would like to know who is better trained?
 
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Geezer       8/18/2009 6:33:23 PM
The differences between Leo2A4-Leo2A6 or F-16 Block 50 - Block 52+ are significant and can certainly make difference.
 For example the 52+ is significantly better in pretty much everything. JHMCS + Iris-T, APG-68.V9 radar (33% more powerfull than earlier versions), conformal fuel tanks offering more range/free pylons for weapons.
 
The same goes for A4 - A6 Leopards. Better protection, better gun, better electronics, communications and battle awareness systems, etc. 

I am aware that the Germans gave the Turks some LeoA4s in really bad condition, i guess Kane is right about that. The ones we got though (talking about our LeoA4s) were in good shape, we also got a good (but expensive) service deal involving local industry but following the exact german standards.  More or less we have a pretty good support base for all our Leos, meaning that their availability is optimal.
 
"Availability" is key term that has to be taken into account.

About the turkish Altay tank i cannot yet comment, its still a vague drawing. Hopefully it won't end up like the indian Arjun, seems like an ambitious project with possible exports in the islamic world.

Regarding airforces, a comparison cannot be made based upon "i think"s. The equipment lists are out there, and both haf and tuaf pilots are more or less experienced dogfighters after decades of dogfights between them.
Tactically, in a war of attrition, in BVR, countermeassure deployment, availibilities, etc, noone can really know who is better and by how much better. Everything stated like "our pilots can dogfight god himself" etc etc just sounds childish and ridiculus. At least.

Especially the "best pilots in the world" statement has become ultra ridiculus. If you ask a greek he will tell you the same. If you ask a british he will tell you the same, an israeli the same, an american the same, a french the same... so please, spare my eyes.

A thing that makes people think of Turks as backward people is probably exactly this, the zombie-like overstatements about the ultra super extra power of the turkish nation. Ok, you are proud of your country, who isn't? Relax, does it worth abandoning sanity for a (n internal consumption) nationalistic hard-on?
 
Be sure that there are things happening that your state does not allow you to learn about. For example, how is the Bodrum corvette doing lately..?
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Geezer       8/18/2009 6:37:36 PM
The differences between Leo2A4-Leo2A6 or F-16 Block 50 - Block 52+ are significant and can certainly make difference.
 For example the 52+ is significantly better in pretty much everything. JHMCS + Iris-T, APG-68.V9 radar (33% more powerfull than earlier versions), conformal fuel tanks offering more range/free pylons for weapons.
 
The same goes for A4 - A6 Leopards. Better protection, better gun, better electronics, communications and battle awareness systems, etc. 

I am aware that the Germans gave the Turks some LeoA4s in really bad condition, i guess Kane is right about that. The ones we got though (talking about our LeoA4s) were in good shape, we also got a good (but expensive) service deal involving local industry but following the exact german standards.  More or less we have a pretty good support base for all our Leos, meaning that their availability is optimal.
 
"Availability" is key term that has to be taken into account.

About the turkish Altay tank i cannot yet comment, its still a vague drawing. Hopefully it won't end up like the indian Arjun, seems like an ambitious project with possible exports in the islamic world.

Regarding airforces, a comparison cannot be made based upon "i think"s. The equipment lists are out there, and both haf and tuaf pilots are more or less experienced dogfighters after decades of dogfights between them.
Tactically, in a war of attrition, in BVR, countermeassure deployment, availibilities, etc, noone can really know who is better and by how much better. Everything stated like "our pilots can dogfight god himself" etc etc just sounds childish and ridiculus. At least.

Especially the "best pilots in the world" statement has become ultra ridiculus. If you ask a greek he will tell you the same. If you ask a british he will tell you the same, an israeli the same, an american the same, a french the same... so please, spare my eyes.

A thing that makes people think of Turks as backward people is probably exactly this, the zombie-like overstatements about the ultra super extra power of the turkish nation. Ok, you are proud of your country, who isn't? Relax, does it worth abandoning sanity for a (n internal consumption) nationalistic hard-on?
 
Be sure that there are things happening that your state does not allow you to learn about. For example, how is the Bodrum corvette doing lately..?
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Geezer       8/18/2009 6:39:16 PM
The differences between Leo2A4-Leo2A6 or F-16 Block 50 - Block 52+ are significant and can certainly make difference.
 For example the 52+ is significantly better in pretty much everything. JHMCS + Iris-T, APG-68.V9 radar (33% more powerfull than earlier versions), conformal fuel tanks offering more range/free pylons for weapons.
 
The same goes for A4 - A6 Leopards. Better protection, better gun, better electronics, communications and battle awareness systems, etc. 

I am aware that the Germans gave the Turks some LeoA4s in really bad condition, i guess Kane is right about that. The ones we got though (talking about our LeoA4s) were in good shape, we also got a good (but expensive) service deal involving local industry but following the exact german standards.  More or less we have a pretty good support base for all our Leos, meaning that their availability is optimal.
 
"Availability" is key term that has to be taken into account.

About the turkish Altay tank i cannot yet comment, its still a vague drawing. Hopefully it won't end up like the indian Arjun, seems like an ambitious project with possible exports in the islamic world.

Regarding airforces, a comparison cannot be made based upon "i think"s. The equipment lists are out there, and both haf and tuaf pilots are more or less experienced dogfighters after decades of dogfights between them.
Tactically, in a war of attrition, in BVR, countermeassure deployment, availibilities, etc, noone can really know who is better and by how much better. Everything stated like "our pilots can dogfight god himself" etc etc just sounds childish and ridiculus. At least.

Especially the "best pilots in the world" statement has become ultra ridiculus. If you ask a greek he will tell you the same. If you ask a british he will tell you the same, an israeli the same, an american the same, a french the same... so please, spare my eyes.

A thing that makes people think of Turks as backward people is probably exactly this, the zombie-like overstatements about the ultra super extra power of the turkish nation. Ok, you are proud of your country, who isn't? Relax, does it worth abandoning sanity for a (n internal consumption) nationalistic hard-on?
 
Be sure that there are things happening that your state does not allow you to learn about. For example, how is the Bodrum corvette doing lately..?
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Geezer       8/18/2009 6:42:52 PM
Anyway, in a purely fantasy world, if Greece and Turkey were allies (as stated in an earlier post) they would be a bad-ass alliance  http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmiled.gif" align="absmiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
 
 
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Geezer       8/18/2009 6:48:39 PM
Anyway, in a purely fantasy world, if Greece and Turkey were allies (as stated in an earlier post) they would be a bad-ass alliance  http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emsmiled.gif" align="absmiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
 
 
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thoukimania12       8/20/2009 1:43:22 PM
FIRST I HAVE TO SAY THAT I AM A GREEK. I HAVE TO SAY THAT I DONT REALLY KNOW WHO WILL WIN SUCH A WAR. AT LEAST I AM NOT SURE. I HOPE THAT IT WILL BE GREECE. LET ME MENTION SOMETHING TO YOU FRIEND. DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR WE WERE THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT HELP GERMANS AND ITALIANS FOR SO MUCH WITH JUST OUR 10 MILLIONS. WE HELD THEM SO MUCH THAT THEY HAD TO POSTPONE THEIR ATTACK ON RUSSIA THAT LED THEM -EXCEPT FROM THE INTERFIERENCE OF U.S.A. MAYBE- TO LOSING THE WAR! ALSO WHEN WE WERE UNDER YOUR CONQUER WE FIGHTED YOU OFF OUR LANDS WITH ABOUT 1/100 OF YOUR ARMY CAUSE YOU HAD THE EGYPTIANS ALSO. NOW THESE MIGHT SEEM A LITTLE FAR AWAY FOR YOU NOW BUT I HAVE TO REMIND YOU THAT EVERY TIME WE DECIDE TO SEND AN F-15 TO SEND AWAY YOURS (CAUSE WE DONT DO THAT MANY TIMES YOU DO) WE ARE SUCCESFUL AND YOURS FLY BACK TO THEIR CAMP. BUT BESIDES THAT CAUSE WE CANT KNOW IF EVERY COUNTRY SENDS THE BEST PILOTS I REMIND YOU ALSO THAT IN A WAR THAT WILL TAKE ABOUT 3 YEARS LETS SAY YOUR ECONOMY WILL SUFFER MORE THAN OURS CAUSE WE JUST LIBE BETTER THAN YOU (NOT THAT WE HAVE A GOOD LIFE HERE I AM NOT SAYING THAT).SO IN CONCLUSION I HAVE TO SAY THAT THIS WAR WILL BE HELD AND I THINK THAT IT WILL BE WORLD WAR 3 OR 4 IT DEPENDS! I THINK THAT IF IT TAKES MANY UEARS THEN GREECE WILL WIN BUT IF IT IS A SHORT WAR THEN YOU WILL WIN AND WE WILL FIGHT LIKE WE DID WITH THE GERMANS IN THE MOUNTAINS. ONE THINK THAT YOU CANT CERTAINLY DO IS BREAK A GREEKS SPIRIT. CAUSE IN CASES OF WAR WE FIGHT FOR OUR LAND UNTIL THERE IS NOONE LEFT AND I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THIS WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.
THANKS FOR READING THIS PAL.
 
 
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FC3S       8/26/2009 7:21:29 AM
First of all i would like to say that there will probably never be a war between Greece and Turkey.
 
I have found a vid in youtube that describes a typical scenario in the region very briefly.


 
 
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Arcasi       12/15/2009 4:02:54 PM
 
I want to say Turkey is in important position and Turkey is making bridge between east(muslims)-west(usa,europe)
if war breaks out with Turkey and Greece for me USA would support Turkey and Iran ,Israel would support Turkey too because Turkey is in very important possition and by the way as we can see in 1974 Greece coundnt do anything with military and Cyprus Republic , Greece got defeated.In 1996 in Kardak Crysis Greece got tactical defeated by Turkey...
For me Turkey would win %90 if war breaks out...And Europe would not help Greece if Turkey not declares war with out silly reason...
 
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Basilisk Station       12/16/2009 1:24:39 PM
Gee, why could it possibly be that all the greek guys think they'd win and all the turkish posters think they'd win.
 
Anyone know the last time someone actually contributed something to this thread that hadn't been posted a million times before or didn't amount to "You suck! We rule!" between the two sides?
 
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french stratege       12/17/2009 9:27:35 AM
It has been demonstrated here at will that USA and Europeans keep deliberately Turkish armies in a situation of relative inferiority to Greec armed forces, by supplying and allowing Greece to keep more diversified and sophisticated equipment and much bigger amount of modern ammunitions.
 
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