Turkey vs. Greece who better?

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Subject: Turkey vs. Greece who better?
Irish Emo dudes 1/4/2007 7:32:39 PM

Greece spends 7 billion on their military and has american weapondry turkey spends 12 billion and also has american weapondry both used f-16's but turkey has ordered 100 f-35's not sure what greece is getting i think eurofighters...whose better militarily and who would win in a war (two different questions) and another thing i would like to know who is better trained?

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Godofgamblers 3/30/2007 6:31:18 AM

So you are saying that because kane is patriotic he is the same as a jihad extremist??!?!

Such an analogy is deeply flawed.

You are so wrong, GOP, and way of out of line.

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GOP 3/31/2007 10:05:26 PM

So you are saying that because kane is patriotic he is the same as a jihad extremist??!?!

Such an analogy is deeply flawed.

You are so wrong, GOP, and way of out of line.

Kane admits to being a nationalist. That's dangerous thinking...look at North Korea and the CCP for examples. We also have nationalistic clowns in the US, check out some of the people in the US who want to declare war on every country the US has a political disagreement with.

My analogy is greatly flawed? Do you have any idea what makes "Muslim extremists" tick? Look, I hate the SOB's and want to kick their a**, but they absolutely are not blood sucking murders. They are so 'loyal' to their religion that they want to make jihad against the West (I bet you didn't know that there are several forms of jihad), Kane is equally 'loyal' as the Muslim extremists. Patriotism is having a deep, deep love of your country (like I do, and many others do aswell), Nationalism is believing everything your government tells you without question, without putting things in perspective, and sometimes without facts. You might want to expand your knowledge of Muslim extremists...remember, "Know your enemy".

Honestly, I don't care if you think I'm way out of line. Personally, I think you are very unknowledgable on the issue of patriotism/nationalism and muslim extremism...but I'm sure you don't care about my opinion either.

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GOP 3/31/2007 10:09:34 PM

and allegiance to what?

Turkey.

um.....no thats not our ONLY difference from those Muslim extremists

No Kane, my point was that your allegiance to Turkey is as strong as the extremists allegiance to jihad. OK, look at the nationalism in your posts. You say Turkey is the most experienced military in the world at mountain fighting...yet Pakistan and India have had full scale wars in the mountains before and have had almost daily scuffles up there for a good 25 years or so. You say that country is the most experienced at guerilla warfare, yet countries like Sri Lanka have been involved in full scale guerilla war for years now. Before you start making crazy claims, take a look at the facts and see if you have a legit point, or if you are just speaking nationalistic bs.

Turkish troops have been fighting in this guerilla/mountain style for about 27 years
How can you prove that Sri Lanka and Pakistani/Indian troops are better than us?I can not prove you that we are better either.

I'm just saying that our soldiers are among the top guys

Yes I'm a nationalist but I know the capabilities of Turkish army

What we lack?

We can't produce our own fighter

Our economy is not independant

We don't have our own assault rifle(we got the licence of M-4 and G3 thats what we produce)

We don't have our own MBT(it'll be ready in 2012)

We don't have long range missiles

And we do not use nuclear energy(Thats why our effect on global warming is 0.9% and USA is about 25%

Anyway you're a nationalist too and your claims are not supported

The years are similar,PKK began it's assaults from Northern Iraq and Southeast Turkey in 1980s

After first gulf war they gathered tens of thousands men,in 1994 they were sacked from Turkish hakkari region(mountains and northern Iraq(secret operation in Iraq))

After the 2.gulf war thank to USA they gathered more men and began attacking civillians again

I'm actually not a nationalist. Please show me some recent posts/threads indicating my nationalism, and I'll concede. My claims are not supported by facts? I'm not saying that the Sri Lankans or Pakistanis/Indians are better than you, I'm saying they have as much or more experience than you guys do.

Oh yeah, and Kane, I know my saying that you are equivalant to a Muslim extremists (just with different allegiances) may sound horrible, but basically I'm just saying you are a nationalist. I like you dude, if I ever say anything questionable then please feel free to call me out.

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kane 4/1/2007 7:04:20 AM

and allegiance to what?

Turkey.

um.....no thats not our ONLY difference from those Muslim extremists

I'm just saying that our soldiers are among the top guys

Yes I'm a nationalist but I know the capabilities of Turkish army

What we lack?

We can't produce our own fighter

Our economy is not independant

We don't have our own assault rifle(we got the licence of M-4 and G3 thats what we produce)

We don't have our own MBT(it'll be ready in 2012)

We don't have long range missiles

And we do not use nuclear energy(Thats why our effect on global warming is 0.9% and USA is about 25%

Anyway you're a nationalist too and your claims are not supported

The years are similar,PKK began it's assaults from Northern Iraq and Southeast Turkey in 1980s

After first gulf war they gathered tens of thousands men,in 1994 they were sacked from Turkish hakkari region(mountains and northern Iraq(secret operation in Iraq))

After the 2.gulf war thank to USA they gathered more men and began attacking civillians again

From the way you explain your army, you sound like a conservative......this is your choice, there is nothing I can say about this but I have talked to conservaties and they generally pretty nationalist(they like calling themselves patriot though)
Yes I'm a nationalist, but this doesn't mean I'll believe whatever my country says....it means I'll always try to do the best for my country and people,if my country makes a mistake I'll stand aganist it
As Atatürk said:
"turkish youth!

your first duty is forever to preserve and to defend the turkish independence and the turkish republic.

this is the very foundation of your existence and your future. this foundation is your most precious treasure. in the future, too, there may be malevolent people at home and abroad who will wish to deprive you of this treasure. if some day you are compelled to defend your independence and your republic, you must not tarry to weigh the possibilities and circumstances of the situation before taking up your duty. these possibilities and circumstances may turn out to be extremely unfavourable. the enemies conspiring against your independence and you

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USN-MID 4/1/2007 7:27:02 AM

On topic, this seems about as simple/textbook as it gets.

GoG had it right:

Air/naval superiority determines who gets to impose their will.

SOF could function as serious force multipliers considering the proximity of the two...sub insertion/extractions sound feasible.

Air mobile units are ideal for this kind of close island hopping, especially combined with the presence of CAS and potential NGFS.

Fast paced, furious warfare if it ever explodes, they'll either grind each other down to a halt, or one side will manage to pull off a real coup and swing momentum over.

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Godofgamblers 4/1/2007 7:59:38 PM

Actually, I do know a thing or two about muslim extremists. They are trying to kill me and they are literally dying all around me. It's a war here. A group of them was just killed in Yogyakarta a couple weeks ago in a firefight with police and army units; one of their bombs, at the Hotel Marriot, could well have killed me because it's a place I (used to) got to regularly and I had just been there the week before. I work in the Central Business District and there have been bombs going off all over the place here: the Marriot, the Stock Exchange and the Malaysian Embassy. These are big bombs too: 200kg of C4 !

And your opinion does matter to me, GOP:)

You can call Kane out for nationalism, but likening him to a jihadi???? That IS out of line, sorry. I think you can make your point some other way...

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Ceetee 4/1/2007 8:49:40 PM

I'm just saying that our soldiers are among the top guys

Turks operate in Kurdish mountains - highest points of which are lower than many Indian, Pakistani and Chinese base camps in Himalayas. All have Division-level formations deployed. Hell, Indians and Chinese have Corps/Army-level formations at these altitudes! Thats whole orders of battle greater than Turkey can deploy.

Individually there may or may not be a difference between Turk soldiers and these guys. But then UK Royal Marines' mountain warfare cadre is probably the best organized, the Norweigian Sirus Patrol the best acclimatized (a very big issue), and if US inducts a draft of its citizen mountaineers it has the biggest pool of uber-high altitude mountaineers to train into soldiers. Germans, Italians, Swiss and French probably have some small niches they individually rule in.

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Godofgamblers USN 4/1/2007 8:58:32 PM

On topic, this seems about as simple/textbook as it gets.

GoG had it right:

Air/naval superiority determines who gets to impose their will.

SOF could function as serious force multipliers considering the proximity of the two...sub insertion/extractions sound feasible.

Air mobile units are ideal for this kind of close island hopping, especially combined with the presence of CAS and potential NGFS.

Fast paced, furious warfare if it ever explodes, they'll either grind each other down to a halt, or one side will manage to pull off a real coup and swing momentum over.

Hey, haven't seen you post in a long while, USN!

Where have you been? At sea?

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GOP 4/1/2007 9:29:45 PM

And your opinion does matter to me, GOP:)

You can call Kane out for nationalism, but likening him to a jihadi???? That IS out of line, sorry. I think you can make your point some other way...

Well, I apologize for my post. I thought you were pissed at me, so I responded rudely. Wow, you are in Indonesia right? That sounds horrible.

Your opinions matters to me aswell, I seriously always enjoyed your posts on strategy...I have always thought they were very well informed and smart.

I think I chose too strong of words. My point was that Kane's nationalism can be dangerous, and his nationalistic views seem to be as strong and closely held/belief as a jihadi's is. I wasn't saying anything about him being anything like a jihadi as far as actions/morals/etc, just that he seems to believe in his country as much as Mujahid believe in the Koran.

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USN-MID 4/1/2007 9:38:32 PM

HA I wish! I've probably got another year and a half or two before going on cruise.

I'll prob have to change my username pretty soon tho.

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