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Subject: Just consider this Compensation for centuries of forced unpaid Labor FROM MEMRI
swhitebull    8/22/2003 4:34:02 AM
TOOOO MUCH I'd like to see Alan Dershowitz argue THIS ONE!!! Special Dispatch - Egypt August 22, 2003 No. 556 To view this Special Dispatch in HTML format, please visit: Egyptian Jurists to Sue 'The Jews' for Compensation for 'Trillions' of Tons of Gold Allegedly Stolen During Exodus from Egypt The August 9, 2003 edition of the Egyptian weekly Al-Ahram Al-Arabi featured an interview with Dr. Nabil Hilmi, Dean of the Faculty of Law at the University of Al-Zaqaziq who, together with a group of Egyptian expatriates in Switzerland, is preparing an enormous lawsuit against "all the Jews of the world." The following are excerpts from the interview: (1) Dr. Hilmi: "... Since the Jews make various demands of the Arabs and the world, and claim rights that they base on historical and religious sources, a group of Egyptians in Switzerland has opened the case of the so-called 'great exodus of the Jews from Pharaonic Egypt.' At that time, they stole from the Pharaonic Egyptians gold, jewelry, cooking utensils, silver ornaments, clothing, and more, leaving Egypt in the middle of the night with all this wealth, which today is priceless." Question: "What will the group of Egyptians in Switzerland do about this issue?" Hilmi: "Dr. Gamil Yaken, vice president of the Egyptian community in Switzerland, came to Egypt to collect information. We set up a legal team to prepare the necessary legal confrontation aimed at restoring what the Jews stole a long time ago, to which the statute of limitations cannot possibly apply. Furthermore, [the theft] is based on their holy book, the same source on which they relied when they invaded other peoples... "The Egyptian Pharaoh was surprised one day to discover thousands of Egyptian women crying under the palace balcony, asking for help and complaining that the Jews stole their clothing and jewels, in the greatest collective fraud history has ever known. "The theft was not limited to gold alone. The thieves stole everything imaginable. They emptied the Egyptian homes of cooking utensils. One of the women approached Pharaoh, her eyes downcast, and said that her Jewish neighbor who lived in the house on the right of her house had come to her and asked to borrow her gold items, claiming she had been invited to a wedding... The Jewish neighbor took [the items] and promised to return them the next day. A few minutes later, the neighbor to the left knocked on the door and asked to borrow the cooking utensils, because she was having guests for dinner. Using this same deceitful system, they took possession of all the cooking utensils..." Question: "It is clear why they stole the gold, but why the cooking utensils?" Hilmi: "Taking possession of the gold was understandable. This is clear theft of a host country's resources and treasure, something that fits the morals and character of the Jews. Yet what was not clear to the Egyptian women were the reasons for stealing the cooking utensils, when other things may have been of greater value. However, one of the Egyptian priests said that this had been the Jews' twisted way throughout history; they seek to cause a minor problem connected with the needs of everyday life so as to occupy people with these matters and prevent them from pursuing them to get back the stolen gold... "A police investigation revealed that Moses and Aaron, peace be upon them, understood that it was impossible to live in Egypt, despite its pleasures and even though the Egyptians included them in every activity, due to the Jews' perverse nature, to which the Egyptians had reconciled themselves, though with obvious unwillingness. Therefore, an order was issued by the Jewish rabbis to flee the country, and that the exodus should be secret and under cover of darkness and with the largest possible amount of loot. The code word was 'At midnight.' In addition, the Jewish women were told to steal the gold and cooking utensils of the Egyptian women, and that is what happened." Question: "Did they leave individually or as a group?" Hilmi: "They left in a convoy of 600,000, that is, about 120,000 families. There were a few wagons in the convoy, and a long line of donkeys loaded with the stolen goods... They crossed the desert in the heart of Sinai, in an attempt to confuse Pharaoh's army, which was on their trail... Later they rested and began to count the stolen gold, and discovered that it reached 300,000 kg of gold." Question: "But the Jews can cast doubt on this story with their usual methods. What is the religious evidence you said is in the Torah?" Hilmi: "Naturally, the Jews cast doubt on this story because that is in their interest. But the answer would be that the story is based on what is written in the Torah. It can be found in Exodus, [Chapter] 35, verses 12 through 36..." Question: "So what arguments can be made in support of getting back our st
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appleciderus    If it wasn't so sick....   8/22/2003 5:49:43 AM would be almost funny.
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American Kafir    RE:Just consider this Compensation for centuries of forced unpaid Labor FROM MEMRI   8/22/2003 10:03:33 AM
Egyptian historical archives are notorious for being deliberately falsified; examples range from ancient inscriptions depicting the battle of Kadesh on the Orantes River against the Hittites as a resounding victory for Rameses II (the Hittites actually kicked Egypt's ass "resoundingly") to the more modern Ramadan War Museum, which depicts the Egyptian 3rd Army as victorious over Israel in the 1973 Yom Kippur War (ahem, NOT). Any evidence from Egyptian source material should be immediately suspected as fraudulent.
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swhitebull    More on the Moses Lawsuit   9/1/2003 4:45:55 PM
Dragging Moses into a lawsuit E-mail this story Printer-friendly format Search archives By Frida Ghitis. Frida Ghitis is the author of "The End of Revolution: A Changing World in the Age of Live Television." Published August 31, 2003 It takes a special kind of legal mind to file a lawsuit against "all the Jews of the world." But then, what's a few quadrillion dollars among old enemies? It's enough to kick off a massive legal project spearheaded by the dean of an Egyptian law school, along with expatriate Egyptians living in Switzerland. This experiment in jurisprudence seeks to build a lawsuit against all Jews, holding them accountable for Egyptian assets presumably taken thousands of years ago when they left Egypt guided by Moses. Yes, that Moses. According to the Bible, Moses led the Jews out of Egypt, where they had toiled as slaves for hundreds of years. Before they left, the story goes, they "borrowed" gold and silver from the Egyptians, which they then took with them on their journey to the Promised Land. The exact amount of the lawsuit has more zeroes than this page will allow. But, according to Nabil Hilmi, the legal mastermind backing this peculiar juridical adventure, the debt is "very large." Hilmi, the dean of law at the University of Al-Zaqaziq, and Gamil Yaken, the vice president of the Egyptian community of Switzerland, are constructing the case. This safari through the jungles of law, religion and history might make for a relatively interesting exercise. One could use it to debate legitimate issues, such as what is the proper statute of limitations for damages inflicted throughout history. But that is not the purpose of the Egyptians' lawsuit. Instead, like so many other arguments articulated in that part of the world, enlightened debate quickly degenerates into renewed bursts of crude anti-Semitism. The suit against all the Jews of the world became public knowledge when an interview with Hilmi appeared recently in the Egyptian weekly, Al-Ahram Al-Arabi. . Hilmi explains the details of the suit, pointing to the biblical story of Exodus in which the Jews, before leaving Egypt with Moses, stole gold items and cooking utensils from their neighbors. According to Hilmi, "This is something that fits the morals and character of the Jews." Hilmi says he and Yaken, have set up a legal team to prepare the case based on the description of the events as set out in the Bible. Curiously, however, Hilmi missed a key part of the story upon which he bases his case. According to the narrative of the Exodus, the Jews left Egypt after laboring as slaves during a long and bitter captivity. In Hilmi's version of events, the only explanation for the departure from Egypt is "the Jews' perverse nature." Instead of the famed "Let my people go" demands from Moses to the pharaoh, Hilmi explains that the Jews enjoyed all the pleasures of life in Egypt. They left for no good reason; quite literally, as thieves in the night. Responding to the lawsuit project, a Jerusalem Post commentator points to a Talmudic story in which Egyptians took the same argument before Alexander of Macedonia, who had just conquered the land, thousands of years before Hilmi and his associates. First, the Egyptians made their case. Then the Jews, represented by a man called Gebiha, had their turn. "Your Majesty," said Gebiha, "600,000 people slaved for the Egyptians for 210 years. The slaves included silversmiths and goldsmiths, whose standard pay today is one dinar a day. We demand the money due to the Jewish people." The Egyptians, according to this story, realized they were the ones deeply indebted to the Jews and dropped their claim. Hilmi's calculations are quite different. Compounding interest, he figures the Jews owe for the 1.1 billion tons of gold for each thousand years since the event. He is, however, willing to schedule payments over 1,000 years. The would-be plaintiffs had the recipe for an interesting concoction: history, religion and law. They could have brought good-natured debate over important matters. Unfortunately, they stirred their venomous language into the pot, ensuring that the most they will brew is another potion to make ancient history feed the fires of modern hatred. swhitebull- wonder if they'll sue the French next for Napoleon's plundering of the Stela and Rosetta stone, or the defacement of the sphinx, or any other people that took stuff. What about standing? They;ll have to prove that they were materially harmed and that the CURRENT residnets were descendants of the original Egyptians, whom many scholars have come to belive were Nubian in orgin NOT ARABIC hahahaha
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WinsettZ    RE:More on the Moses Lawsuit   9/1/2003 9:07:52 PM
Seeing the case in the Americas about "slave reparations" much money can define the suffering of a single person? A thousand? A million? Is this for the tangible sufferings (beatings, starvation, stillborn kids), or the intangibles, such as pain, despair, loss of hope and other stuff? The Jews could easily sue a lot of people today. They've been pushed around for centuries.
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swhitebull    Followup = arab intellectuals think the lawsuit is a bunch of hogslips   10/1/2003 6:28:35 PM
From Memri a followup - guess they cant take the fallout of acknowledging that the Jews are one people.
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American Kafir    RE:Just consider this Compensation for centuries of forced unpaid Labor FROM MEMRI   11/30/2003 1:08:17 AM
"well..this sounds pretty ridculous...but then again..i bet you fellas wouldn't find it out of the ordinary for menachim Begin to say rubbish such as the jews built the pyramids and all the egyptian monuments" I'm almost certain at least some of the Egyptian monuments were built by Egyptians. You'd have to discredit Flavius Josephus and other classical historians to say that Jews weren't the enslaved builders of the Pyramids. "or like...that Islam has hijacked the torah and copied everything..." What part of the Torah says the Sabean moon god is the creator of the universe? What part of the Torah says Allah turned Jews into monkeys and pigs? "ANd i do beleive the 1973 war was won by Egypt..I mean there are good points which proves this i think" Ah, they were like the American "Spearhead" 3rd Armored Division in WW2 Europe, huh? ("Why did they call them the Spearhead, Grandpa?" "Because spearheads go right in, and do their job best when they're surrounded by enemy [flesh]") No, I'm sorry, the Egyptian 3rd Army failed in 1973. Or have you not noticed that Israel is still around? "RamsesII did manage to halt the hittites into a stalemate which caused a treaty to be signed that gave back syria to egypt and anatoliato the hittites" Not at the battle of Kadesh where Ramses' army, like many Egyptian armies since, was defeated and sent home in disgrace.
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swhitebull    RE:Just consider this Compensation for centuries of forced unpaid Labor FROM MEMRI   12/1/2003 1:18:08 AM
RE:Just consider this Compensation for centuries of forced unpaid Labor FROM MEMRI 11/30/2003 12:29:32 PM ...i bet you fellas wouldn't find it out of the ordinary for menachim Begin to say rubbish such as the jews built the pyramids and all the egyptian monuments.... I would find it EXTREMELY extraordinary for Menachem Begin to say ANYTHING, since he's been dead since 1992. ..i bet u wouldnt find that just as disgusting eh swithebull???.. What I Do find disgusting is the constant barrage of Anti-Semitic, vitriolic hate-filled literature and media pouring out of Egypt, whether govt-sponsored or not - like Egypt's "fact filled" tv series alleging that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as truth, rather than the totally fabricated Czarist Secret Service work it was proven to be. I find it disgusting that Mein Kampf is a best seller throughout the Arab world I find it disgusting that someone who is revered by millions of muslims married and slept with his nine year old cousin. There's a word for it. Look up MJ to figure it out. I find it disgusting that the Arabs as a people and a culture are delusionary in their beliefs that the Israelis and the Jews are responsible for every and all of the ills in the Arab world I find it disgusting that Egyptian clerics and the Egyptian press STILL maintain, after incontrovertible evidence showing that ARABS were responsible, that it was the Mossad that engineered the WTC massacre, and that they actually believe- WITHOUT ANY REAL EVIDENCE - that Jews stayed home that day. I find it disgusting that the once proud Egyptian civilization was hijacked by a pedophile, had their Alexandrian library burned to the ground, and lost 1400 years of cultural development. I find it disgusting that contrary to all MILITARY evidence, the Egyptians stil maintain that Ramases proclaimed a victory over the Hittites (you are the first one that ive ever heard that sees the stalemate for what it was), and this delusionary ability to forget its defeats and overemphasize its few and far between military successes as dogma. I find it disgusting that Egypt, a nation with close to 60 million people, has not progressed economically or culturally in the 20th century- the Israeli economy - with just 6 million people -has a much higher per capital GNP- and is THE only Middle East tech center. I find it disgusting that the charges of Jews using the blood of children for Passover matzhohs is STILL preached and believed as truth, in the supposedly civilized nation of Egypt. swhitebull - I guess I just find your whole line of thinking - disgusting. Next time, rather than just rambling on, try to make more sense
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swhitebull    RE:Just consider this Compensation for centuries of forced unpaid Labor FROM MEMRI   12/1/2003 2:24:31 AM
This is long, so I'll break it into several parts. Kiwi AK47 made the following comments: I advice u to refrain from doing the following 3 things: 1) Get personal with others who disagree with u. Yes, we understand as a fanatic zionist and a ruthless pursuer of ur goals you are very much at home here in a largely biased American website Good- you should take the advice yourself- your first posts made extremely personal attacks .. Coments such as calling the prophet Mohammad a paedophile and things like that without ANY explanation….. PEDOPHILIA : [NL] (1906): sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object. [Scriptural Evidence] Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Sahih Bukhari [the most venerated and authentic Islamic source] Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). .. would YOU find it just as disgusting when Menachim BEgin (the former Israeli prime minister) says that the jews built the pyramids?… Not at all, I find it to be right on target, except he really was referring to the ancient Hebrews, from which he was descended- as the Torah says, the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt and built the Torah. Begin was notoriously non-religious. An honest mistake. Blood–libel claims I find disgusting; claims by Egyptian Arab lawyers filing suit against “the Jews” for theft of Egyptian treasures taken as compensation for forced labor by Hebrews just emphasizes Menachem Begin’s comment, and solidifies the links between the ancient Hebrews and the Jews. .. You forget that arabs are semetics more than jews are, as they are the descendants of ishmael who was Abraham''s eldest son… Actually, you display your ignorance, as anti-Semitism is a term applied expressly to those who hate Jews. Whether ethnically Arabs are technically Semitic people or not is irrelevant to the application of the term. So YOU are the one playing word games, not I. … You don''t have to read the texts of the elders of zion to justify the actions of israel today, the Talmud is highly qualified for that.. ANd only of my evidence is the 43rd vesrse of the 4th chapter " the land that is struck by a foot of any of the children of israel is for the children of israel, enslave the women as you please (for sexual pleasure) and kill all the men so that they would not rise against you"…. And that would be WHAT volume of the Talmud, since there are more than 20? … Fact is, the elders of zion book exists, we have seen Israeli fanatics shouting it''s not theirs, but we are yet to receive their evidence that this book wasn''t authored by one of them… … I beleive the state of Israel is in no need for a ''tv series'' as u say to make the Arab world absoultley loathe her and hate her to the guts. This is because Israel''s occupation of arabs, is the one of the most savage and barbaric ever to be observed…. Except for all the slaughters conducted by Arabs on brother Arabs, and other peoples, in modern times? …. I find it disgusting that Mein Kampf is a best seller throughout the Arab world" evidence????......Again nada.. I seriously doubt that the majority of arabs have even HEARD of the book...but iam all too happy if u present proof that this book even exists in a sellers list in the arab world… … NEW YORK- Adolf Hitler's autobiography, Mein Kampf, in which he explains his virulent hatred of Jews, has made it to the best-seller list in the Palestinian Authority-controlled territories. The French news agency, Agence France Presse, reports that Mein Kampf is presently at number six on the PA best-seller list. It noted that Mein Kampf was banned from the territories during the years of Israeli administration of the region, but was recently allowed in by the PA. Morton A. Klein, National President of the Zionist Organization of America (ZOA), said: "The Palestinian Arabs' apparent fascination with Mein Kampf is a deeply troubling phenomenon. When Israeli forces overran Arafat's bases in southern Lebanon in 1982, they found many copies of Mein Kampf, in Arabic, among the PLO terrorists' belongings. Nor we can we forget that the most popular Palestinian Arab leader, the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el-Husseini, spent the Holocaust years in Berlin, where he was an active Nazi collaborator; he is still revered as a hero among the Palestinian Arabs today." The ZOA president noted that Arafat's number two man and the architect of the Oslo accords, Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen), is the author of a book (The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and the Zionist Movement) which claims that Hitler killed less than one million, not six million, Jews, and that (Jerusalem Post , Jan.26, 1995); the official PA newspaper A
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swhitebull    RE:Just consider this Compensation for centuries of forced unpaid Labor FROM MEMRI   12/1/2003 2:25:46 AM
OOPS - look like someone got deleted while I was writing this. GLad I still have it on my browser so I can save his post and continue later swhitebull
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swhitebull    RE:Just consider this Compensation for centuries of forced unpaid Labor FROM MEMRI Part 2    12/1/2003 4:35:52 AM
Here is the second part of my response to KiwaAK47's rant: ....HOw old was HAGGAR and SARAH when they were married to Abraham???....... Actually, the Torah DOESN'T dsay, and since you are contending that the marriage of a 6 year old, then consummation at age 9 was common practice for the Arabs, the source I quoted is specific. As to the number of wives of Moses, easy - 2. One a midianite, the other - possibly - again the Torah is unclear in the Hebrew - an Ethiopian. ...Prophet mohammad did nothing wrong or out of the ordinary for his time...and infact is the one who taught equality of women and the LOVE of women. Before him girls were buried alive. When he came, women were allowed to OWN, INHERIT , DIVORCE and REFUSE MARRAIGE. WOMEN were allowed TO study AND learn TO read AND write AND take part in decision making. A first in History might i add... Except to institutionalize wife beating : As to Islam being the first to instutionalize the concepts of female divorce, property rights, and the refusal to wed, I suggest you carefully read the Torah again, since these were written down as laws 2000 years before Mohammed's mother was still gleam in the camel's eye. You have a very narrow understanding of history- seen thru the prism of a religion that institutionalized the aforementioned wife beating, and tries to eradicate all other religions from its areas of occupation. ..You want sexual perversions, I give you the torah and the old testament...From LOT sleeping with his daughters drunk ( a prophet chosen by god does this????)...... Actually, you got that one a@@ backwards as well, since it was Lot's daughters who got him drunk in order to bear children, since in their view the world had been destroyed, and they thought there were no more men left. They got Lot drunk because they knew he would not willingly consent to sleeping with his daughters. Moses and david and solomon worhsipping idols and sleeping with thousands of wmen and animals..... Uh yeah -it says that where again? What a moron. I could live with the number of women. To be honest, the "sexual perversions" in the Bible make for a good read on a cold night. Still - bottom line is there's no pedophile as the founder of the Hebrew people - cant say that about Islam with a straight face, can you? there's no pedophile like your pedophile, like no pedophile I know.... as the song says. ..i would ask you kindly to retract this paedphile comment of urs about my prophet as relgion is a sensitive matter... But you see nothing wrong with trashing and maligning the Jewish religion, right? ..Egyptian achievements in the 20th century: ..Aswan Dam, Media, army, the best and most exstensive surface irrigation systems for agriculture in the world, the oldest arab parliament, the first EVer cinemas and films in the world???.. Aswan Dam - built by the Soviets Egyptian Army? You mean the one built and subsidized by the Brits? or the one built, trained and subsidized by the Soviets? or the one currently subsidized by the United States? The 1973 War was NOT a military victory for the Egyptian army, unless you consider not being destroyed again thanks to soviet intervention a victory of some sorts. I do maintain that the crossing of the canal led to the political peace that followed. But the same can be said of Israel- that the war was fought on Egyptian soil, not Israel's, that Israel's crossing to the WEST bank of the Canal FORCED the Egyptian government to make peace, and that the imminent destruction of the Surrounded Egyptian 3rd army was THE cause of the ceasefire. Media- totally free and not subject to government censorship, right? Irrigation System- not from the 20th century- the technology has been an Egyptian trademark for millenia - but good Oldest Arab Parliament - time to get with the 21st century - its been a rubber stamp for decades, going to prove how democratic Egyptian institutions really are- and I'll throw in the Baksheesh for free. Egyptian Cinema and movies- Not invented there: Egypt’s movie theater took its first steps in January 1896 when the first film was shown in Alexandria just a few days after the first movie in the world was screened in Paris on December 28, 1895. In Cairo, another film was shown also in January and all films were imported. swhitebull - Q.E.D.
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