Their is a saying that "war brings the worst out of people" and atrocities happen in war. The stresses of war brings soldiers to rape and loot an area. About the Waffen SS I read that they were supposed to be the best troops that Germany has to offer and that they were the personal favorite of Hitler. They were men who were said to be pure blooded Germans. The requirements to be a member of the SS is to be 5'9 in height, blue-eyed and to have a record of German blood to the 1700's. The SS committed atrcocities through orders and did it without conscience if you would look at their famous atrocities. The destruction of Lidice in Czechoslovakia and the one Holocaust

Your right "Commander" the Waffen SS did have standards in the begining, but later as the war progressed these standards were done away with, as over half of the Waffen SS were from all over Western and Eastern Europe from Spain to the Ukraine. You are also right Commander that War brings out the worst in people. This is to be said for both Allied and Axis forces, however I think the Japanese did some extremely ghastly things in China and Burma with its POW's and experimentations...even more so then the Germans. However that is off the subject regarding the Waffen SS. I wanted to talk about how the Waffen SS mostly the 1SS, 2SS, 3SS, 5SS time and time again were able to cause so much damage when they were out numbered time and time again. Casualties were high but they had a fighting spirit and comradery that kept them together, even though they knew it may be all for nothing. Many fled to the Frech foreign Legion seeking new lives.

Just echoing what Ghostrider said. Originally, the SS were pure-blooded Aryans, and were supposed to be the embodiment of Hitler's "supermen" (i.e. tall, blond, good-looking, politically fervent, and pure of blood and heart) As Hitler's personal army, they did receive a disproportionate amount of the latest and best equipment and training resources, and for many of their units, displayed a ferocity in combat euqalled only by certain regular Wehrmacht units. As Ghostrider mentioned, the more famous ones were the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th SS Panzer divisions. As the war wore on, the recruiting requirements of the SS slackened somewhat, even to the degree that the SS Handschar division (21st or 22nd, CMIIR) was formed in the Balkans and as such, most of its rank and file were Slavic in origin, and some were even Muslims. It should also be noted that SS divisions other than the aforementioned 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th generally performed less ably in combat than most Wehrmacht divisions. Pretty much this was a phenomenon of reality not living up to reputation. The Waffen SS, although politically indoctrinated, understood the real face of war better than their death camp-running brethren, and so were probably not as inclined toward mindless cruelty. I believe that most of the Waffen SS performed in combat with great bravery and skill, and were not any more wanton in their killing than many other troops of their era. The Japanese, as mentioned before, were some of the most cruel and sadistic soldiers since Genghis Khan's hordes.

"It should also be noted that SS divisions other than the aforementioned 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 5th generally performed less ably in combat than most Wehrmacht divisions. Pretty much this was a phenomenon of reality not living up to reputation." I'd tend to disagree with this comment to the extent that the combat performance of Hohenstauffen, Frundsburg, Nordland, and Hitlerjugend was equal, or nearly so, to the best wehrmacht divisions. Too, the Latvian S.S. divisions (15th and 19th S.S. Grenadier divisions) were considered exceptional in the Narva River battles of summer-fall, 1944, as was the ukrainian division (14th S.S. Grenadier Div.)and the estonian 20th S.S. Grenadier Division. Admittedly, the bosnian catholic/moslem troops were both militarily unreliable and morally corrupt, being responsible for a number of partisan related atrocities. The notion that the premier divisions didn't have an unduly amount of blood on their hands, however, is just plain wrong. Totenkopf, Liebstandarte, Das Reich, and Hitlerjugend all had noteworthy instances of cruel and inhumane behavior, many of which were not committed on the eastern front. I've, however, never noted any mention of 5th S.S. Panzer Div. (Viking). They may be the only early division without a notable incident of which I'm aware. The political flavor of national socialism was imbued in the war-ethic of the Waffen S.S, with all the consequent barbarity. To think otherwise is misinformed, misleading, and falsely apologetic. That ethic was grounded, particularly against the Soviet Union, as a race war, and the Waffen S.S. were the vanguard of a new order. The level of enmity that existed between two totalitarian states, with troops on both sides highly indoctrinated against their opponents can't be understood in the west. That much I'd agree to. Moreover, there should be no illusions about the conduct of the troops of the Soviet Union, whose only defense against the countless atrocities which they committed being ultimate victory. Still, on the whole, the aforementioned divisions were exceptional warriors by any standard. That these divisions were particularly favored with equipment only came after two years of exceptional combat performance in Poland, France, Greece, and Russia, and frankly differed little in the favor displayed to Grossdeutschland, Herman Goring, Panzer Lehr, 1st Panzer, and Ferdanhalle divisions, and the Fuhrer Grenadier and Fuhrer Begleit brigades. My gut tells me that, in summary, these were bad-assed guys. Capture by them could by quite problematic, even as a western soldier. That there were superb officers and troops among these units is of little doubt. That a greater proportion of their troops, however, would, and did willingly engage in many heinous and wanton acts of barbarity should not be forgotten nor dismissed.

as a Renactor of the 9th SS, I did not mention all the elite Waffen SS division, as I was only making a point. However S2 thank you for assisting me in getting my point accross, those divisions did deserve to be ranked amongst the elite, even if their time in service was not as long as the four core Waffen SS divisions.

I dont think any actual historian would try and dismiss, any accounts of what you would call barbaric action. War is war... its cruel, bloody and full or rage and emotion. Im not defending the Waffen SS, in their actions, im just stating they are not the only branch of service that commited crimes against there fellow man. The Brits in Normady in some instances would shoot a Waffen SS man, even if he was surrendering just because he wore the runes of the SS, and likewise with the US. There are actually many accounts of the Waffen SS treating Allied POW's with care and humanity. We could go on and on, about this subject, but my last thought about this is the Waffen SS, and the other elite Wermacht divisions fought well and with great consideration with their foe, however I cant say that happend on the Eaastern Front as they both hated each other imensely, had the Germans liberated the Ukraine instead of sending them to labor camps and such, the Germans could have had another 1.2 million in man power strength, this could have possibly turned the tide in the East, but was not ment to be.

I believe that the members of Btry B, 285 Field Artillery Observation Battalion had an opinion on this. http://www.qmfound.com/malmedy.htm http://www.army.mil/CMH-PG/books/wwii/7-8/7-8_11.htm And it proved to be counterproductive since it stiffened the resolve of US troops throughout the Ardennes.

well alot of that material was printed along time ago, and its easy to get pictures of Waffen SS men on their way through Malmedy. I will get the info for you but at the time of the Malmedy incident, Pieper was not even near Malmedy, however since he was in Command, he was to blame. Again I will get the info for you but I believe the incident occured in Malmedy when Prisoners tried to escape, and there were shots fired by Wermacht troops, as they were now in the rear area of the German advance, I will try and get documentation for you.

It's not about Peiper, and there's plenty of documentation about the trial, to include coercive measures by U.S. prosecutors against about 500 S.S. troops specifically charged with this incident. That explains, IIRC, the overturning of numerous convictions related to Malmedy. What's not in dispute is that S.S. troops, under the command of some officer, did, without cause, shoot those men. Therein lies the rub. While numerous Brits will attest to the humane treatment received at the hands of the S.S. in both Arnhem and Greece, incidents such as Malmedy and Le Paradis (Flanders, 1940)were all to common amongst the rank and file. That's why I said that your chances of surviving capture by the S.S. was problematic, even if from a western army. In fact, if you were French Morrocan or Senegalese troops in 1940, your chances, for reason of race, were not good at all. These were bad guys, subject only to the leadership, or lack thereof, of their immediate commanders. Meanwhile, don't even mention units such as the Dirlewanger brigade and Kaminski's RONA regiments, who eventually even sickened the S.S. leadership.

The source was from the official US Army history of World War 2 so if it was old its because it was written by the participants using primary sources and interviews. The men were prisoners who ran after they had been shot at. As follow on SS units were driving by several offices fired into the crowd of troops with their pistols then the SS troops opened fire. I find no redeeming value in troops who believed in a genocidal doctrine who willingly followed a deranged madman like a messiah. While the Allgemeine SS ran the concentration camp infrastructure, Waffen SS troops participated in numerous instances of atrocities.