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Subject: Why does Iran hate Israel?
TriggaFingaz    10/30/2004 11:05:52 AM
I ask this becoz apart from the usual 'hate infidels' thinking behind the Khomeni revolution, the Israelis supported the Shia Muslim factions in Lebanon during the 1980s. The Shia and Israelis had a common enemy in the PLO who had turned Lebanon into their playground of pillage, looting and terrorist raids. So when the IDF invaded and cleaned out the PLO's clock, many Shia welcomed the Israelis as brothers. Yet, Iran's creation the Hizbollah would be able to gather enough power to make the IDF presence in south Lebanon unteneble and now Iran makes a lot of threats about nuking Israel. Why, when Iran's coreligionists in Lebanon benefitted from Israel's attack on the PLO there????
 
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Shirrush    RE: Mmmmaybe it's our fault after all?   12/27/2004 1:54:42 PM
Iranian antisemitism runs deep, and is as ancient and not less ingrained than it's Greek counterpart, and Islam, which came much, much later, only made it a more commonly accepted currency of Persian culture by providing it with a wide textual basis. The origin of the Jewish-Persian grudge may be, in much the same way as the Jewish-Greek enmity, recorded in the Bible's later texts. To believe these sources, the role of the Jews as victims is uncertain, and they prove that the Diaspora Jews have not always been persecuted minorities, but fighting, lethal and victorious ones as well. Similar, post-biblical examples of Jewish communities taking over by the sword, and later paying dearly for centuries after they had been defeated, are also known, particularly from the Yemen (yes it's in the Qur'an) and from Ethiopia, were they got to rule over the Christians, at times with extreme cruelty, for some 10 centuries. The Jewish festival of Purim, that will take place the 24th and 25th of March next year (drats, no day off, it falls on a weekend!), is a carnival characterized by loud, costumed merrymaking, and is the only occasion of the year where the usually stern, fun-is-sin rabbis actually recommend getting seriously drunk. It is, however, a thoroughly secular, non-religious celebration of a purely ethnopolitical character, and G_d is not mentioned even once in the Bible's Book of Esther. To make a long story short, Purim is a commemoration of events that happened sometime around 480 BC to the Jewish community of Persia, a kingdom spanning "from India to Kush (Abyssinia)". Xerxes I, whom we call, for no apparent reason, Akhashverosh, is in the third year of his reign. One day, he has a party at his palace of Shushan (Susa, or Shush, in Khuzestan). Apparently, in those pre-Islamic times, parties are held separately for the blokes and for the ladies (maybe they were British after all.) He gets pretty drunk, and wants to boast of his beautiful wife Vashti, so he has her summoned to the bloke's party. She turns feminist on him and refuses, whereupon he flies into a wine-powered tantrum, and repudiates her, or worse. He is then off to fight the Greeks or something for four-or-so years, he gets thrashed, and when he's back at Shushan life's still good but he's lonely, and as concubines just don't cut it anymore he feels ready for some serious nagging. He then tenders out for beautiful maidens, and this Jewish guy Mordecai, saddled with a defunct relative's progeny, decides it's time for him to turn his misfortune to an advantage and do some seriously high-level pimping. He gets lucky and his babe of a niece, Hadassa whom the Parsim call Esther, hits the jackpot and wins the royal heart, along with with a Queen's crown and probably, er, some length of royal wand too. She has been instructed by her clever uncle, to hide her origins and ethnicity, you never know and there are so many antisemites around. One day Mordecai, bumming around in the palace probably waiting for his niece to hand him a few leftover bottles, overhears a couple of eunuchs plotting to assassinate Akhashverosh, and he goes ratting to the Mukhabarrat, a deed that is, luckily for him, recorded in the Royal Registry. In the meantime, a powerful antisemitic faction led by a certain Hamann, son of Hamdatha from Hagag, rises to prominence and wins the King's favour, and Hamann becomes PM. Hamann-the-wicked is a very pompous sort of guy with a very small shlong, and everybody that sees him and does not outrank him, and nobody does but the King himself, must prostrate himself before him. So one day Hamann meets Mordecai, loafing as he always does at the gate of the palace, and the guy refuses to prostrate himself before him. Mordecai is Jewish, and as such is not supposed to kiss the floor in front of anyone but G-d Almighty himself, and besides that he's got a sore lumbar region so he'd rather not anyway. Jews always get in trouble for being stubborn on genuflexion matters, and most often have lower spine problems, too. Hamann goes really ballistic over this, and so decides to exterminate, genocide, and obliterate Mordecai and his kind, on the entire territory of the Persian empire, from India to Kush that is. To do this, he obtains the King's written orders, that are forwarded by FedEx to every corner of the said Empire, even reaching (probably) the 'Afula Satrapy. Then two things happen: the King, suffering from insomnia and quite unable to fall asleep with Samuelson's "the Economics" and with Shushan's Yellow Pages, has the Royal Registry read out loud for him, whereupon he is reminded of Mordecai saving his life from the vile eunuch's plot. Esther also pitches in with some heavy alcohol-assisted bedroom lobbying in the Queens quarters of the palace, that is so successful that at the end she can even disclose to the King her, and Mordecai's, origins. When a distraught Hamann, feeling an evil wind blowing, particularly a
 
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Jungle-Man    RE: Mmmmaybe it's our fault after all?   12/29/2004 12:35:12 PM
Every nationality has its faults, and the jews have theirs, but to carry over the fault of the father to the son, is unreasonable in this day and age. for example look at Germany and Japan, if the same type of grudges were to be born for them by the nations who fought in WWII as for the jews I doubt that the Germans or the Japanese would be able to hold the positions that they do in the world. And the crimes that were committed by Germany and Japan hapenned barely 60 years ago and those the the jews allegedly commited were over 2000 years ago. So while there may be some sort of basis for disliking jews historically, the jews are definitly being treated unjustly worse than other nations who by all rights should have been a smoking ruin for their actions (well they were, but they should have been left that way). Which brings us right back to the question of what is the real cause of antisemtism, which is again simple politics: they are a conviniet scapegoat. Think about it, they are almost always a minority, do better in life than the majority, have a distinctive culture that is different from the majority. All those charecteristics make for a perfect scapegoat. Oh and Persian, how many times do we have to go over this, civilians killed by the IDF are killed by ACCIDENT, while civilians killed by the palestinians are killed DELIBERATLY, get it through your head already.
 
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jastayme3    RE: Mmmmaybe it's our fault after all?   10/29/2005 5:26:09 PM
Actually Vashti didn't "turn feminist on him"-the king had come very close to calling her a prostitute. some women find that irritating. and I still say Esther doesn't show ingrained anti-semetism in Persia, but rather in Mordechai. Or at least ingrained power-drunkenness in Mordechai(he wanted to commit genocide over a personal insult) and culpable neglegence in the Great King. The first and sometimes the second are as bad as anti-semetism. Though from Mordechai's wording, I have sometimes wondered if he was trying to convince the Great King that he desired to launch a routine anti-bandit punitive expedition, and the King was to busy to read the fine print. After all such expeditions must have been common. And perhaps he too was power-drunk and didn't think much about ordering bloodshed. I sent an earlier entry by the way-but I can't find it here.
 
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jastayme3    RE:Why does the whole world hate Jews?   10/29/2005 5:37:52 PM
Unfortunately, in this world religious prejudice is more the rule rather than the exception. Jews have also almost always been minorities in foreign countries. Add to that the fact that Jews tend to be very talented entrepreneurs making them far more properous than the majority. Prosperous minorities are always resented, particularly when they are of a different religion. The world is better off with the Jews here. The world should stop hating them, and start learning from them. Previous Comment Next C ----------------------------------- I have sometimes thought-"the Jews can't have a massive conspiracy because if they really did rule the world, the world would be a lot better run." Explaining why Arabs hate Jews is fairly easy-they lost the last four wars. Of course the Arabs hated Jews before that-thats how the wars started. Actually though considering how the world normally acts you might think about regarding anti-semitism as a compliment. Besides it is said to be more important to be feared than loved. You have at least acheived that-and you probably cannot convince them to love you no matter how virtuous you are(that doesn't mean you shouldn't be virtuous -it simply means that no one will love you for it). Let the savages hate you-so long as they fear you.
 
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jastayme3    RE:Why does the whole world hate Jews?   10/29/2005 5:58:04 PM
Let the savages hate you-so long as they fear you. Previous Comment --------------------------------------- And yes this is not a completly Christian idea-it is to some degree the result of frustration On the other hand it is not a completly unChristian idea Prov 19:25-smite a scorner and the simple will beware Prov 20:26-a wise king scattereth the wicked and brings the wheel over them Psalm 146:3-put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man in whom their is no help
 
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