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Subject: Iranian papers - Great war to wipe out Israel
reefdiver    11/16/2006 8:54:06 AM
Doesn't anyone believe this stuff? Has the world gone deaf? Now its not just Iran's president, but the press prepping the populace. We haven't heard such rhetoric many times in history without catastrophic results. Full article at: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3328416,00.html Excerpts: Iranian newspapers Kehyan and and Resalat have urged Muslims around the world to prepare for a 'great war' to destroy the State of Israel. "The great war is ahead of us, (and will break out) perhaps tomorrow, or in another few days, or in a few months, or even in a few Years... Israel must collapse," the newspaper said. "On that day... Jordan will not be able to prevent the Jordanian Islamists from operating through the long Jordan-Palestine border, and the millions of Egyptian Islamists... will not let the Sinai-Israel border remain quiet, and the Syrian Golan Heights will not remain as a (mere) observer of the battle. That day is not so far off."
 
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Ezekiel    Let them try   12/31/2006 1:38:52 PM
Oh can u imagine, this isn't an Iraq situation, this is a highly competant democracy, that has a highly developed arms industry, and high tech resources in research & development. other considerations
Arguably the best trained pilots in the world with the largest contingent f-16 outside the US.
Top five special forces in the world
Has the most advanced spy satellites in the world (ofek)
Battle hardened and experienced Army and command
elite Communication tech
Merkeva 4 is considered one of the best & safest tanks in the world
Mossad is one of the top 3 intelligence organizations in the world
US is its prime arms supplier
Only operational- anti ballistic system (arrow)
3 Dol-phin submarine 2nd strike capability
200-300 nucl-ear missiles in all shapes & sizes
etc.etc.
Iran....Just try it, and i'm sure that 13th imam will stay hidden for quite some more time
 
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reefdiver       1/5/2007 1:01:05 AM

Oh can u imagine, this isn't an Iraq situation, this is a highly competant democracy, that has a highly developed arms industry, and high tech resources in research & development. other considerations
Arguably the best trained pilots in the world with the largest contingent f-16 outside the US.
Top five special forces in the world
Has the most advanced spy satellites in the world (ofek)
Battle hardened and experienced Army and command
elite Communication tech
Merkeva 4 is considered one of the best & safest tanks in the world
Mossad is one of the top 3 intelligence organizations in the world
US is its prime arms supplier
Only operational- anti ballistic system (arrow)
3 Dol-phin submarine 2nd strike capability
200-300 nucl-ear missiles in all shapes & sizes
etc.etc.
Iran....Just try it, and i'm sure that 13th imam will stay hidden for quite some more time

But thats the real issue and question isn't it - are they actually bold (read: DUMB) enough to try? A major Iranian attack, coordinated with Hizbollah and Syria would however not be a pleasant experience for Israel even though Israel would undoubtly survive - even if Iran thinks otherwise. I note Syria is this week attempting a weapons buy in Russia using a couple of billion in Iranian money. 
 
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Ezekiel       1/8/2007 9:44:30 AM
reefD you are definitely correct in saying it would not be pleasant... and yes i believe that islamic fundamentalists are capable of such absurdity. The fact that this ideology is a death cult in its beleif in homicide bombing and using as children as weapons as well as making absolutely no distinction between civilian and military in offensive or defensive tactics. Though i do believe that Israel has l-earned a valuable l-essons last summer against Hezbolla. One being in terms of Europe they have shown themselves that despite everything they will always sympathize with the Arabs when Israel is involved, therefore the lengths Israel went to minimize civilian casualty despite Hezbolla using these as cover for attack and defense will not be as a high priority, though it will of course still be one. Also Infantry will be instead of the airforce will be the main weapon against hezbollah... the only thing that Iran then will be able do is a involve syria, but b/c Israel has the Golan this makes this very unlikely (notice the reason assad wants to suddnely enter negotiation with Israel so he can get his hands on this very important peice of strategic territory), from the golan Israeli artillery can shell demascus. Iran can launch its shihab3's but Israel has the arrow defense as well as the jericho to l-aunch back. The last is the large amout of int. terror networks that Iran controls which can launch against jewish targets world round.... yes it will be unpleasant, and yes I think the Iranians are crazy enough to try it, but Israel will exact it's own type of destruction if it should occur.
 
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french stratege       1/8/2007 11:04:38 AM
Title
Oh can u imagine, this isn't an Iraq situation, this is a highly competant democracy, that has a highly developed arms industry, and high tech resources in research & development. other considerations
Arguably the best trained pilots in the world with the largest contingent f-16 outside the US.
Top five special forces in the world
Has the most advanced spy satellites in the world (ofek)
Battle hardened and experienced Army and command
elite Communication tech
Merkeva 4 is considered one of the best & safest tanks in the world
Mossad is one of the top 3 intelligence organizations in the world
US is its prime arms supplier
Only operational- anti ballistic system (arrow)
3 Dol-phin submarine 2nd strike capability
200-300 nucl-ear missiles in all shapes & sizes
etc.etc.
Iran....Just try it, and i'm sure that 13th imam will stay hidden for quite some more time

Israel has an impressive army for its budget but stop to think that Israel has become to be modern equivalent of Whermacht
-Arguably the best trained pilots in the world :
No they trained even a little bit less than NATO top forces - We could say they are on the par of NATO top forces
-with the largest contingent f-16 outside the US.
yes - But don't forgot that US has delivered only a small amount of AMRAAM to keep control
-Top five special forces in the world
Difficult to say- Top 10 surely
-Has the most advanced spy satellites in the world (ofek)
By spending 100 time less than USA and 10 time less than the French? A good laugh.
-Battle hardened and experienced Army and command
For few veterants on high intensity combat.Most of the army when mobilized is far to be battle hardened.See reservist units in Lebanon.
-elite Communication tech
Yes quite modern
-Merkeva 4 is considered one of the best & safest tanks in the world
yes
-Mossad is one of the top 3 intelligence organizations in the world
Again a good laugh.Top 10 surely.Mossad concentrate on israel foes
-US is its prime arms supplier
yes
-Only operational- anti ballistic system (arrow)
Pac 3, Russians etc..
-3 Dol-phin submarine 2nd strike capability
yes and build and payed by germany
-200-300 nucl-ear missiles in all shapes & sizes
Again a good laugh.Israel military budget could not maintain such a force.It would make no sense to spend so much money at expense of fighters and tanks.You can bet Israel has 50 to 150 warheads and less than 50 ballistic missiles with a single warheads.It makes no sense to spend more than 500 m$ on nuclear when you have a yearly 3000 m$ procurement budget!
etc.etc.
 
 
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french stratege       1/8/2007 11:16:12 AM
On the contrary Israel had a huge vulnerabilty with only a limited amount of available airbase (increasing vulnerability to ballistic missiles strike with submunitions - a threat that Arrow can cope only partially with a lot of difficulties),  and limited airspace to train and also big constraints in budget (see reservist training).
Israel has a well trained air force of 400 modern operational aircraft and equivalent of a 1800 tank force (tank actually trained and modernized) lacking of a modern IFV.
Probably 50 to 150 fission and fusion doped fission warheads with probably less than 50 on single warhead medium range ballistic missile.A spy satellite similar to civilians like Ikonos.
A little coastal navy with 3 SSK (half of Swedish navy in size).
Very good indeed for a 5 million people country.
 
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Shirrush       1/8/2007 5:02:23 PM
Effess, this time I must agree with you.
We're a small, $h!tty country, and in spite of the fact we have been punching above our weight militarily with the help of the US of A and a self-replicating PR machine generated by our lucky strike back in 1967, our defense forces are what we can afford, and none of our best and brightest has chosen an Army career in a long, long time, so that anybody could see last August how poorly-led the IDF is. We do not amount to much compared with the masses of martyrdom-seeking combatants that oil-rich, 62 millions strong, fascistic Iran can field.
As to our nuclear deterrent, it reminds me how I commute to work every morning on a rumor about a future rail-based mass-transit system in the Tel-Aviv metropolitan area: rumors don't cost much, and work only as long as they're believed.
Fortunately, geography works our way this time, and Iran is far away. They do have a limited number of ballistic missiles with sufficient reach to do damage, and a squadron-or-so of ex-Iraqi Su-24's as well.
We have an appreciable quantity of reasonably sophisticated, long-range strike aircraft, and small but nasty cruise missiles to go with them another 180 miles or so.
I'm frankly more worried about the hundreds of chemical-tipped SRBM's that Syria can launch at us since we have nothing that can intercept these shallow-trajectory streakers, but I guess that the Syrian launcher crews will have a short, if interesting war, since this time there will not be any consideration for any innocent civilian population the rocketeers might hide behind.
I found a very good article by a very perspicacious German about what we're really up against here.
May God help us.

 
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Ezekiel       1/9/2007 2:39:32 PM
Israel has one of the best pilots in the world, you use land space as an argument for lack of practice time.... what you don't keep into account is that, Israeli air simulators are considered the best in the world and Israeli pilot course is considered the most rigorous in the world.  US airforce has procured them for itself, as well as european countries. As for intelligence agencies, Mossad is considered to be one of the best intelligence agencies in the world by most military experts, due to amount of personel (little known fact that mossad employs one of the largest networks of facilitators in the world), operational experience which the mossad has plenty of, and technological capabilities which is very tough to judge due to lack of info. Though i have been reading about new nano weapons Israel is developing (i think the weapon, i think called the wasp or the hornet) as for your f-16 remark, you must know that the f-16's the Israeli's use are hardly the same f-16's they receive on delivery, they are gutted and suped up with highly superior Israeli electronics. This is the reason israel needs the source codes for f-35's so it can install its own equipment. This industry was developed when Israel was trying to make the lavi when it failed, they still had some of the other support industries for the jet...one of which was the electronics.

As for Israeli satellites, which is one of the few countries that indigenously builds and launches its own satellite system, it is considered to be one of the best if not the best espionage satellites in the world....why. Because of the magnification it can take pictures to the smallest detail, also to the fact it can look at two places at the same time and it's ability to meneuver in space. As for special forces, I know that they train with british and American special forces and from my own personal- sources they more then hold their own. And US and brits special forces are considered the best in the world. As for your amraam comment, if you did your own homework Israel develops its own missiles and they are considered to be top notch. Some examples, the anti ship barak, the jericho cruise missile, the gil (which by the way is a crazy missile). They do need some from america like the bunker busters and other types but it has a mature missile industry.

As for the nukes what does it matter 100 or 300... the fact is I have read in a number of sources that it has between 250-300 nukes in all sha
pes and sizes. They can hit as far as moscow. and they have the submarines to launch a second strike... and i don't care who built them the fact is they have them and they're getting two more. We have also forgotten the UAV tech which israel was essential in its development and is one of the top producers of. As for battle experience for a country that is only 60 yrs old and fought 6 high intensity conflicts and never lost is pretty darn good. They regularly pass urban fighting doctrine's to the US and nato, as well air tactics and America consistently watches and learns from Israeli tactics and doctrines in its wars, one b/c of Israel's success and two b/c it tests american weapons for them, this has changed since 2001 now that america is involved in two wars. If Israel was to trully fight Iran i don't think it would be a walk in the Quote    Reply

eu4ea       1/9/2007 8:35:08 PM
I really like the idea of a (conventional) Iraeli EMP strike on Iran, which has been floating around this week, supposedly based on vague Israeli MoD comments.

Perhaps it's because the idea of sending those fools and their medieval religion right back to medieval times seems poetic. Lets see them issue their fatwas and get them across the desert prophet-style; on a camel. All that without causing any direct victims, too.

More practically, it seems like it could be a a very clean way to disable their nuclear program, even it it's buried and/or hidden amongst civilians. Not to mention silencing the Iranian gov and denying them use of their radio/TV for propaganda purposes - and it would take them a good long while to come out that, since (AFAIK) the Iranians cant produce any integrated electronics, computer equipment, communications equipment, broadcasting equipment, TV cameras, avionics or anything of the sort.

Does anyone know anything about Israel's conventional EMP weapons and their effective radius?  It seems to me like they would most likely have flux compression generators mounted on standard bombs/missiles, like the US and CIS have, which should work well, thou you'd need a lot of them.

Heart,

eu4ea


 
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sofa    epitome of french contempt   1/9/2007 10:51:17 PM
Nice clever historical comparison: "...but stop to think that Israel has become to be modern equivalent of Whermacht" -fs.
 
Here's my damning comparison: "You are representative of your country".
 
 
Speaking of the Wehrmacht... here's a reminder of the Wehrmacht
 
link
 
link
 
 link
 
Never forget. 
 
Paris...The German Army's favorite vacation spot!http://www.athalawulf.com/francehistory_files/germansparis.jpg" width=365 border=0>
 
 
Never forget.
 
 
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sofa    apologies to reefdiver   1/9/2007 11:12:00 PM
Sorry, I shouldn't have posted my last response here and corrupted your fine discussion.  I ususally reply to this bile by responding on the "french union" page.
I forgot my social graces. Sorry.
 
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