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Subject: english boycott as expression of anti-semitism?
deronda    6/4/2007 1:10:41 PM
the largest nation on earth without a state of their own? the kurds. the country that persistently calls for the eradication of another state, represses women, minorities, religions AND speech? iran. the country that is CURRENTLY embarking on a policy of systematic genocide of a segment of its population? sudan. the country that is one of the greatest violators of democratic freedom of speech? china. the country that the various british unions choose to direct their collective conscience in protest? Israel.a jewish state, who for whatever one can say about it, has as its adversary a terrorist entity democratically elected to govern with the overt agenda of destroying israel.neither sudan, china, nor iran are faced with daily rocket barrages on civilians, and while israel is boycotted,they pursue their policies unabated in the face of these facts, one can only assume that the scrutiny placed on israel goes beyond the occupation, otherwise the unions would be doing the same for the kurds.
 
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Shirrush       6/4/2007 4:11:15 PM
Well, does anybody finds another valid explanation?
There's nothing made in the UK and currently sold in Israel that cannot be sourced from someplace else. We'll gladly do with the US and German alternatives. There's a legislation proposal in the Knesset for a law to clearly label all British products as "coming from a country hostile to Israel". It appears to be supported across the board. We've had enough of that crap, that we've been fed for the simple reason that bashing us incurs no risks. This could change, and should.

Norway transferred US$ 10M to the Hama"s government. That officially makes it a terror-supporting country. How come Norway is still a JSF partner? Is the US so eager to have its most sensitive military technology shared with its mortal enemies under cover of "humanitarian aid"?


 

 
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Hugo    Not Certain   6/7/2007 4:34:54 AM
Actually, I think I have one Shirrush.  I don't want to discount anti-semitism entirely but I actually believe the boycott sentiment - and I think we have to be careful to distinguish the whole of the UK from its left-wing teacher's union -  is motivated by anti-westernism.
 
If you live in the West then you're bombarded with constant attacks by the extreme left on Western society at large.  I believe that Israel represents for them the easiest Western target on account of the issues with the Palestinians that are easily portrayed as victims like their brethren in Western Societies are potrayed as the victims of Islamophobia.  Islam, in the view of the extreme left, is in my view the Trojan Horse with which they can destroy western society before erecting their new Utopia.  I realise how ludicrous this may sound but I have no other explanation for the destructive behaviour amongst the extreme left towards free societies.
 
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Ezekiel       6/8/2007 10:28:37 AM
Hugo you haven't adressed the main point of the argument....

WHY is Israel consistently singled out for a boycott when there are far more serious violations of human rights going on. Far more flagrant and documented then an Israel that exhibits itself as a nation that has a credible and legitimate claim of self defense against islamist terror. (remember that Jihadist hamas is now in executive control of the Palestinian authority).
what about the countless arab dictatorships and arab states records on repression of woman. What about darfur, what about tibet, what about Iranian actions against its own intellectuals and professors.

Israel some how takes a life of its own in the european psyche, it seems to me that europeans are junkies for israel demonization readily supplied by the Arab propoganda pimps.The idea that israel an established democracy (there are problems) that has gone out of its way to find a negotiated solution. and even non negotiated attempts (disengagement) all to its very real detriment. From oslo came the 2nd intifada that has killed 1500 israeli's in its aftermath more then doubling Israeli death's from all Israel's preceding years. Now in gaza they launch kassams on civilian centers and have claimed israeli lives and engendered a sderot a ghost town.

European's like believivg that the jewish state is bahaving monstrously b/c it excuses their past actions of similar behavior. It relieves them of guilt and essentially allows them to excuse the dubious past. Israel has become Europe's patsy, acynical irony if you have ever heard one. Israel has every right to annex these lands and make a legitimate claim of liberated territory based on a verifiable record that attest to a jewish presence far predating an arab population that was 50,000 only two hundred years ago. The only historical claim better then the jews to this land is the hittites...but they ain't around. Despite all this, europe disregards a vast and rich jewish history and accepts a nascent palestinian history that is no more that can go back no longer then a century. This grosse historical revisionism that allows for a claim of occupation instead of liberation is prosecuted by a europe that ironically derived its moral foundation from a jewish population that developed just such a theory when they were a independent nation on the land now seen as occupied for 1200 yrs.

Europe is emotional when it comes to the jewish state and therefore it is not reason but passion that guides the european thought concerning Israel. the question of intellectual rigor becomes paramount when confronting the european pro palestine opinion. They just don't want to know and when it comes Israel that is acceptable.....

 
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Hugo    Ezekiel   6/12/2007 4:23:45 PM
I'm not sure I have missed the point.  I think Israel is singled out because she is a Western democracy. 

Sudan, Zimbabwe, etc are third world dictatorships and third world dictatorships aren't usually criticized by the left, often because they themselves are run by extreme left regimes.

Israel is an easy target.  It is easily portrayed as an occupier, an oppressor of an impoverished people.  Do you think the left criticized Idi Amin or countless other African dictators nearly as much as they did South Africa prior to 1994?

If the extreme left criticized countries such as Myanmar, Russia, China to the degree that such criticism is deserved, then there would be no time left in their schedules to criticize Israel.  But their priorities aren't calculated on moral principles but political ones. 

 
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Hugo    Ezekiel   6/12/2007 4:34:40 PM
Oh, and Ezekiel,  Europe is hardly a unified political or cultural entity.  There are countries in Europe that support Israel.  Germany has supported Israel financially to the sum of US$100 billion since 1948 and has supplied it with discounted, even free military hardware, hardly the actions of a country wishing Israel's demise.  Indeed, I believe it was Sharon who stated that Germany was Israel's second best friend. 
 
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SGTObvious       6/12/2007 4:36:38 PM
"I'm not sure I have missed the point.  I think Israel is singled out because she is a Western democracy. "

In that case, being a Western democracy  is clearly a collosal blunder on the part of Israel.

Just imagine: 

Europe:  Bad, Bad little Western Democracy!

Israel:  Ya know, we've been thinking, it's about time to recognize our middle eastern heritage.  Stop calling us "Western", we're Middle Eastern, really.   Look at our noses!  After all, so many of our parents and grandparents came from Iraq, North Africa, Russia... not Western at all, really.  We'll still be a democracy, but more like Singapore.  Or maybe India."

Europe:  Ok, then.

Israel:  And also, we're gonna kill a few thousand of those Palestinian goons this week with an intensive artillery bombardment of Gaza.

Europe:  Splendid, carry on then!  Just remember not to call yourselves "Western." 

SGTObvious

 
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Hugo       6/12/2007 4:56:35 PM
Are you critizing me or Europe?
 
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Ezekiel       6/13/2007 2:13:31 AM

Oh, and Ezekiel,  Europe is hardly a unified political or cultural entity.  There are countries in Europe that support Israel.  Germany has supported Israel financially to the sum of US$100 billion since 1948 and has supplied it with discounted, even free military hardware, hardly the actions of a country wishing Israel's demise.  Indeed, I believe it was Sharon who stated that Germany was Israel's second best friend. 

Hugo,

Germany didn't give Israel anything!!!! Israel ss the lone Jewish State, and Germany being the country that wiped out 6,000,000 jewish lives (2 million children) a 1/3 of the entire jewish population in 6 years in conveyor belt genocide...Germany hasn't GIVEN anything. That is a radiculous statement. Even if germany was to give 200 billion dollars, it would be but a smidgen that is owed to the jewish people for such a crime. This money is blood money, this money is a reparation for the most obscene act committed in human history. There is no price tag on this, absolutely none and yet Israel is expected to be grateful to Germany for them paying out reparations and giving some guilt aid...what a joke. Germany should consider themselves lucky that Israel takes their money which alleviated some of their collective shame b/c if it was me i would spit it back in their face, their is no sum of aid that would suffice for the souls lost in such abject and inhumane way.


 
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Ezekiel       6/13/2007 2:29:14 AM

I'm not sure I have missed the point.  I think Israel is singled out because she is a Western democracy. 

Sudan, Zimbabwe, etc are third world dictatorships and third world dictatorships aren't usually criticized by the left, often because they themselves are run by extreme left regimes.

Israel is an easy target.  It is easily portrayed as an occupier, an oppressor of an impoverished people.  Do you think the left criticized Idi Amin or countless other African dictators nearly as much as they did South Africa prior to 1994?

If the extreme left criticized countries such as Myanmar, Russia, China to the degree that such criticism is deserved, then there would be no time left in their schedules to criticize Israel.  But their priorities aren't calculated on moral principles but political ones. 


AN absurd logic, that ISrael is defamed and bullied by Europe b/c she is an actual democracy, where as the thug dictators and the huge countries such as russia and china are let off well b/c it doesn't fit well with real politik. I though human rights spoke for themselves, that each life whether one is in sudan, or bosnia, or in china is jsut as precious. No the truth is a part of what you say is right , it is easier to pick on Israel, it is easier to concentrate one's efforts in demonizing the jews as racist, as immoral killers. It is not b/c it is a western democracy, but b/c it is 1 jewish state against 20 + arab states, they have the oil, the media for instance is a business, and the fact is that europeans as a whole represented by the EU have bought into the "cycle of violence", the oppressed/oppressor narrative, the 'occupation myth" without doing their homework on the conflict. Taking their cues from arabist propoganda, their is a real and dependable market when it comes to Israel bashing in Europe this is beyond dispute, but my real issue is that you sighted s.africa but their it was well documented case of abuse, in Israel there is no such thing (not to say there isn't problems) there is  definite questions of myth or fact to issues reported daily to european audiences as fact, indisputable fact and yet the European's when it comes to Israel have lost thier enquiring spirit, content to let Israel be seen as monstuous. This happens in no other conflict when the europeans are concerned, but with Israel the european are content with unverified sources, pro palestinian bias, and revisionist narratives that do not touch the realities on the ground. Its the willful ignorance that trully reveals the bigotry b/c if they did seek the truth, then they would discover that the conflict is very different in motivation and in actuality then what is presented in the news.

You said europeans are not united, and alot support Israel. That is true to a degree, but look At U.N. voting trends of the european nations voting record when it comes to Israel. They vote together and they vote consistently against Israel....facts are facts.

 
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Ezekiel       6/13/2007 3:51:43 AM

I'm not sure I have missed the point.  I think Israel is singled out because she is a Western democracy. 

Sudan, Zimbabwe, etc are third world dictatorships and third world dictatorships aren't usually criticized by the left, often because they themselves are run by extreme left regimes.

Israel is an easy target.  It is easily portrayed as an occupier, an oppressor of an impoverished people.  Do you think the left criticized Idi Amin or countless other African dictators nearly as much as they did South Africa prior to 1994?

If the extreme left criticized countries such as Myanmar, Russia, China to the degree that such criticism is deserved, then there would be no time left in their schedules to criticize Israel.  But their priorities aren't calculated on moral principles but political ones. 


AN absurd logic, that ISrael is defamed and bullied by Europe b/c she is an actual democracy, where as the thug dictators and the huge countries such as russia and china are let off well b/c it doesn't fit well with real politik. I though human rights spoke for themselves, that each life whether one is in sudan, or bosnia, or in china is jsut as precious. No the truth is a part of what you say is right , it is easier to pick on Israel, it is easier to concentrate one's efforts in demonizing the jews as racist, as immoral killers. It is not b/c it is a western democracy, but b/c it is 1 jewish state against 20 + arab states, they have the oil, the media for instance is a business, and the fact is that europeans as a whole represented by the EU have bought into the "cycle of violence", the oppressed/oppressor narrative, the 'occupation myth" without doing their homework on the conflict. Taking their cues from arabist propoganda, their is a real and dependable market when it comes to Israel bashing in Europe this is beyond dispute, but my real issue is that you sighted s.africa but their it was well documented case of abuse, in Israel there is no such thing (not to say there isn't problems) there is  definite questions of myth or fact to issues reported daily to european audiences as fact, indisputable fact and yet the European's when it comes to Israel have lost thier enquiring spirit, content to let Israel be seen as monstuous. This happens in no other conflict when the europeans are concerned, but with Israel the european are content with unverified sources, pro palestinian bias, and revisionist narratives that do not touch the realities on the ground. Its the willful ignorance that trully reveals the bigotry b/c if they did seek the truth, then they would discover that the conflict is very different in motivation and in actuality then what is presented in the news.

You said europeans are not united, and alot support Israel. That is true to a degree, but look At U.N. voting trends of the european nations voting record when it comes to Israel. They vote together and they vote consistently against Israel....facts are facts.

 
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