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Subject: Grim Assessment of the Middle East
swhitebull    11/16/2007 11:05:30 AM
from The National Review: Hard Facts about the Middle East [J. Peter Pham] My friend Dr. Ely Karmon, a senior researcher at the Institute for Counter-Terrorism (ICT) and the Institute for Policy and Strategy (IPS) at Israel's Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya, has called my attention to a grim assessment of the situation in the Middle East by one of the region's sharpest observers, Ehud Ya'ari, which originally appeared as a Jerusalem Post column last Saturday. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380783569&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull According to Ya'ari, a veteran commentator and the author of eight books on the Arab-Israeli conflict: The hard core of cold facts tends to be washed away in the flood of hollow verbiage in the media's coverage of the twists and turns of the Middle Eastern imbroglio. Daydreams obscure the line of vision to the true horizon, as do misleading analyses and sheer prejudice. Gaza: Over the coming year, there is no doubt that Hamas, in its upgraded military mode, will be producing Qassam-type missiles with a range of 20-25 kms, bringing all of Ashkelon, Kiryat Gat, Netivot, Ofakim and the many kibbutzim and moshavim that surround them into the line of fire. Over a quarter of a million Israelis will be in range. Moreover, Hamas will be able to fire the rockets from the heart of Gaza, without having to send launch teams to the open areas close to the border fence. All of which means that unless there's a miracle and a full and stable cease-fire is in place, the government, whether eagerly or out of a lack of any alternative, will have to order the army to carry out a major operation to clean up the Strip, along the lines of the dazzingly successful Operation Defensive Wall in the West Bank in 2002. It will probably be harder and cost more casualties. The army is already preparing for the campaign and Hamas is working feverishly on its defense plans, based mainly on heavy rocket fire into Israel - dozens a day - and fortifications and trenches around the launch sites. The West Bank: The Palestinian security apparatuses are not in control of the whole area. If it were not for Israel's regular preemptive counterterror raids, Hamas could, if it so wished and even without the use of armed force, paralyze the functioning of the Palestinian Authority. There's no chance that things will change in the foreseeable future. The Fatah movement has in fact ceased to exist, although there are still tens of thousands of card-carrying members. There is no meaningful process of resuscitation or reform under way in either the PA, or its ruling party, Fatah. In private conversations, associates of the PA chairman, Mahmud Abbas (Abu Mazen), call him "a pensioner still going to the office." For example, the Al-Amari refugee camp in the heart of Ramallah, the "capital" of the PA, has openly declared itself beyond the jurisdiction of the Palestinian police. When British intelligence operatives asked leading members of the Fatah's Al-Aqsa Brigades in Nablus who their enemies were, they replied: Hamas, corruption, collaborators with Israel, and Israel itself, in that order. The militiamen, in other words, see the rotten government of Abu Mazen as more of a target than the settlers. Instead of gaining strength after the debacle in Gaza, Fatah on the West Bank is growing weaker. The Annapolis Conference: Abu Mazen has been heard joking with his bureau staff that "after 20 years, I've gone back to being a teacher." What he means is that he finds himself engaged in long hours of explaining to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice about the land mines on the way to a permanent settlement. The Egyptians have already advised finding a suitable pretext to postpone the parley indefinitely. Meanwhile, it is becoming clear to all parties to the negotiations that there is no chance of agreement on a declaration that will herald even a hint of a breakthrough. If Abu Mazen compromises, he will be assailed by both Hamas and much of Fatah. If a vague statement is issued, everyone will say yet again that he has nothing to offer to his people. The Palestinians are fuming at Rice for having trapped them in a corner and have begun to try and get out of it by renewing the talk about a "third step" in the Oslo process that was never implemented. What this means is an attempt to get more territory on the West Bank from Israel without having to reach any substantive agreement. Lebanon: Without knowing how the grave internal crisis in this country will end, these facts are already clear: Hizballah is building a large quasi-divisional formation north of the Litani River, as part of an effort to link the Shi'ites of South Lebanon to the Shi'ite heartland in the Beka Valley, through a corridor across the Christian and Druse villages that separate the two. Syria and Iran are supplying the militia with long-range rockets, anti-tank missiles and other advanced materiel
 
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Herald1234    Why do I keep seeing the crisis coming to a head in the PACRIM about the same time these bastards are ready to make their try in the ME?   11/16/2007 11:31:55 AM
I don't believe in so called coincidences.
 
Guam raided, Taiwan invaded, and Israel hit, possibly all at the same time? That is how it looks to be gamed out.
 
We KNOW that the PRC supported stooge DPRK cutouts are the tech conduit, and that Syria, Iran and the Paks are all in the same Agha Khan knitting circle.
 
We KNOW that the Saudis fund all this crap in the ME and that the Beijing Bandits are the ultimate source of the rockets and WMD programs.
 
I just don't get it. What does it take to wake people up?
 
Herald
 
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battar    Alarm clocks not ringing   11/16/2007 4:18:19 PM
Very difficult to wake someone up when he wants to stay asleep.
The American anministration seem to believe that the only threat is terrorism and that they can make peace with "moderate" Moslem leaderships. Truth is, the threat is Islam itself - terrorism is merely a symptom of the culture clash between Islam and the "infidels". American and west Europeans are not inerested because they are economicaly dependant on relations with Islamic countries, because they host large Muslim populations, because they are ignorant and apathetic.
 
Question - to what do you attribute the ignorance and apathy of the West's leadership?
Answer - I don't know and I don't care (laughter).
 
Has anyone read David Selbournes' book "Losing the battle with Islam" ? It's an eye-opener. I've got a spare copy which I can post to Shirrush if he is interested.
Anyone read Bernard Lewis's books on the same subject?
 
 
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FJV    Islam is an Arab tool   11/16/2007 4:55:02 PM
Islam seems only to go so far in explaining stuff in the Middle East. When I look closely I constantly see regulations and key concepts of Islam ignored when it's oppertune for Arabs to do so.

An example of this the recent suicide attack by a ten year old. If Mohammed forbade 13 year olds from fighting in a battle, because they were to young , then what makes it OK to use a 10 year old in warfare? Or in the Netherlands where the Muslim community cries murder on the slightest criticism of others, yet doesn't speak out when one of their own steals 800,000 euro from the build fund of a mosque, a fact much more heinous with respect to Islam. Also the Islamic community was largely silent when one of their imams was found out to trying to have sex with underage boys. No deatht threats then, even though the offence from an Islamic viewpoint is very severe.

I have a hunch that family honor and group/tribal politics matter more to the average Arab than Islam, even though an Arab will never admit this.




 
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Shirrush       11/16/2007 8:08:27 PM


Has anyone read David Selbournes' book "Losing the battle with Islam" ? It's an eye-opener. I've got a spare copy which I can post to Shirrush if he is interested.

Anyone read Bernard Lewis's books on the same subject?

 

Sure. Bring it on.
I'm glad to see you're beginning to get it.

I am, however, somewhat in disagreement with Herald. If the West is, understandably, loath calling the Peacetime over and switching to the ass-kicking gear, so is China, that has much to lose by  attacking Guam and invading Taiwan. Herald should take a hard look at the other bogeyman to the North, the Real Enemy, which runs no risk of losing its energy supply for bolstering the Jihad and starting wars all over the place. Anybody saw the film about Putin's KGB tsardom yesterday on Israel's Arutz 1?

 
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battar    The local library   11/17/2007 2:52:31 PM
Shirrush -
 Contact me with a postal address at [email protected] and I'll bung the book in the post when I get around to it.
It takes a lot of learning of the nature of Islam and the middle east history to understand how complicated the situation can get and why there are no simple solutions but it seems that most of our leaders just can't be bothered to ask and kep on making foolish and simplistic statements - especially in an election year - which get us nowhere. You get this both on the left and he right, thoughthe left usually make more sense and are less inclined to include violence in their proposed solutions.
 
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garotomaluco    Wow   11/17/2007 5:20:06 PM
Careful Battar, you are beggining to sound a little bit Himmlerish... understand me?
 
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Herald1234    I haven't forgotten about the fascists in Russia.   11/17/2007 5:59:05 PM





Has anyone read David Selbournes' book "Losing the battle with Islam" ? It's an eye-opener. I've got a spare copy which I can post to Shirrush if he is interested.



Anyone read Bernard Lewis's books on the same subject?



 



Sure. Bring it on.
I'm glad to see you're beginning to get it.

I am, however, somewhat in disagreement with Herald. If the West is, understandably, loath calling the Peacetime over and switching to the ass-kicking gear, so is China, that has much to lose by  attacking Guam and invading Taiwan. Herald should take a hard look at the other bogeyman to the North, the Real Enemy, which runs no risk of losing its energy supply for bolstering the Jihad and starting wars all over the place. Anybody saw the film about Putin's KGB tsardom yesterday on Israel's Arutz 1?


Yakhimento and Nashi along with other Putin shenanigans? I'm GRIMLY aware. Dragon first, then the bear.

SEAPOWER Shirrush. The PACRIM is the future.  

Herald
 
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Shirrush       11/17/2007 6:01:31 PM

It takes a lot of learning of the nature of Islam and the middle east history to understand how complicated the situation can get and why there are no simple solutions but it seems that most of our leaders just can't be bothered to ask and kep on making foolish and simplistic statements - especially in an election year - which get us nowhere. You get this both on the left and he right, thoughthe left usually make more sense and are less inclined to include violence in their proposed solutions.
My impression is rather that our leaders keep talking crap while doing what they can, and this is why we're still here.
The left has the merit of not only understanding the limitations of power (migbaloth hakoach), but of being able to describe them to us accurately and honestly. The right understands them too, and has never been given to the kind of hubris that'd have gotten all of us killed, but uses the kind of language that makes you and I suspect they could in order to appeal to their Betar Yerushalayim primate electorate.
The problem is, well, that this appeasing attitude and all that "peace process" nonsense has pretty much run its course, and is now endangering us a lot more than it is preventing war and destruction.
There is no doubt that a new warfighting/ peacemaking paradigm is needed, and I fear that it will be generously provided by the enemy, saving us the expense of thinking up some solution of our own.

Something happened tonight that I dare see as a political turning point. 100,000 citizens and citizens-to-be came out to Rabin Square, not to support or oppose this or that political block, not to demand peace or to shout for war, but to promote the Welfare State goals of the teachers' strike.
The public, it so appears, has discovered democratic reality, and is for the first time in our national history mobilizing on a real-life issue instead of an ideological one: what level of state services are we getting for our tax money?
I predict the next 100 K demo in Kikar Rabin will be about environmental issues or, who knows, civil rights and liberties!

I sincerely hope that real life will be the core issue of the next elections, and that we are indeed realizing there is nothing we can do about war and peace except trying to win and avoid enough battles in order to survive, which is what we've been doing all along anyway, and that tearing each other apart on ideological and religious grounds has lost its attractiveness in the face of such an hostility directed at all of us by countless millions around the globe. While we still have them, our lives are more important, and making them better and less embarrassingly difficult while getting ourselves and our kids a future, will be the priority.


 
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Shirrush       11/17/2007 6:31:29 PM

Careful Battar, you are beggining to sound a little bit Himmlerish... understand me?
No.
Care to explain?
I have a hunch it is you who must be careful. These boards take a dim view of those wielding the nazi-analogy dipstick, and you won't last long if you don't make sense...

 
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garotomaluco    Here   11/18/2007 12:46:11 PM

Very difficult to wake someone up when he wants to stay asleep.

The American anministration seem to believe that the only threat is terrorism and that they can make peace with "moderate" Moslem leaderships. Truth is, the threat is Islam itself - terrorism is merely a symptom of the culture clash between Islam and the "infidels". American and west Europeans are not inerested because they are economicaly dependant on relations with Islamic countries, because they host large Muslim populations, because they are ignorant and apathetic.
I refer to this post.
I mean, Islam is a religion, not a threat. You should now that any religion may be a tool to use people. However, that doesn't make such religion a threat, its the religious authorities who purposedly misinterpret that religion who are the threat. I know you ought to now this... but sometimes a reminder comes in handy.
 
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