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Subject: Israel says finds explosive chemicals in EU aid bags
FJV    12/29/2007 6:01:18 PM
Israeli find of chemicals for the manufacture of explosives found hidden in bags for EU aid. Link to reuters article: "http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL297764020071229" As far as I'm concerned you can remove word says in the title. What are the odds on betting that a few months down the line people will start accusing Israel of restricting EU aid unfairly, by checking the bag contents, without even mentioning this prior episode of Palestinian "dual use" of EU aid bags? One shudders at the thought of what this tactic could lead to if succesfull, because there are a lot worse thing you can make with chemicals.
 
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Shirrush    Another example of the malignant inversion...   12/30/2007 6:50:16 AM
...that grips al-Reuters, AFP, AP, and the rest of them: "Potassium nitrate can be used to make explosives and to power homemade rockets. It can also be used as a fertilizer".

For f**k's sake, Potassium Nitrate is fertilizer. If you're a terrorist, you may want to use it as an oxidizer, but it is meant for use in intensive farming. It's a pity the Gaza farmers can't get any of it, because it can make a difference between getting a modest profit from lots of hard work, and catastrophic loss for insufficient yield/quality.
I sincerely hope the Gaza farmers can get alternative, non-explosive Nitrogen fert such as Ammonium Sulphate or Urea.
They are knowledgeable and skillful enough to be able to use these rather more technical substances, which need to be sprayed on the crop at the appropriate times and at the right concentrations, or applied in a composting process.
 
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FJV       12/30/2007 9:14:22 AM
The fact that the fertilizer was in bags marked sugar shows their intended purpose.

Also I would be carefull about putting sugar into my coffe if I were Palestinian, you might end up drinking fertilizer.

It would make sense to provide the alternative fertilizer through the EU aid program, though more thoroughly checked.






 
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battar    Your Ear.   12/31/2007 2:28:17 PM
I don't think there should be a shortage of Urea in the Gaza strip.
You would think the fools in the EU would know that potassium nitrate could be used as explosives (Texas city, 1947, anyone remember?)  and would not provide the stuff in the first place.
 
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Shirrush       12/31/2007 4:40:59 PM
Texas city, 1947, anyone remember?
Toulouse, 2001, Oklahoma City, 1995...

 
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battar    Not on purpose   1/1/2008 2:08:34 PM
The explosion on a ship carrying bulk material for fertilizer in Texas city port on 1947 was an accident. The damage and casualties were far greater than any terrorist attack (excluding 9/11).
 
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FJV       1/2/2008 7:38:30 AM
If I understand the article correctly

The EU did not send the Palestinians fertilizer, but sugar in those bags. The Palestinians then used the bags marked sugar to smuggle chemicals for explosives.

Better send the next batch of goods in transparant plastic bags.



 
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Shirrush       1/2/2008 8:09:23 AM

The explosion on a ship carrying bulk material for fertilizer in Texas city port on 1947 was an accident. The damage and casualties were far greater than any terrorist attack (excluding 9/11).

The Toulouse AZF event in 2001, in which ~40 people died, has been classified as an industrial accident as well following the French gov't inquiry. Some say a genuine terrorist attack has been covered up, but can't prove it.
Such behavior would not, however, be entirely surprising on behalf of the Chirac administration.

My understanding is that Nitrate ferts are now formulated to prevent both explosions and hygroscopic deterioration, but the stuff that blew up was most likely raw, unformulated Ammonium Nitrate.
Nitrate ferts are invariably granulated to allow their dispersal in the field by rotating-disk machines, and look nowhere like crystalline Sucrose. Clear polyethylene sacks might be a good idea, but changing the packaging specs of bulk F.I.'s such as sugar is no trifling matter. In Israeli f&b factory courtyards, I've seen sugar coming in from abroad in large, squat, cylindrical 1 metric Ton bags made of a sturdy white, woven polyethylene sacking fabric. A transparent material as strong as that, which would hold that much weight while hanging from a crane, would no doubt be very expensive. Think Polyamide, but really, really thick...



 
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Hugo       1/2/2008 2:25:23 PM
Importing Potassium into Israel..  Smells funny to me..
 
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WarNerd       1/2/2008 10:26:08 PM

Also I would be careful about putting sugar into my coffee if I were Palestinian, you might end up drinking fertilizer.


Potassium nitrate is also known as saltpeter, which is, among other, things a well known anaphrodisiac (i.e. the opposite of an aphrodisiac).
 
If the Israeli's are feeling really nasty, they might want to spread a rumor that a large portion of the shipment of 'sugar' has gone missing and was probably being sold on the black market as sugar.
 
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jastayme3       1/3/2008 1:51:33 AM



Also I would be careful about putting sugar into my coffee if I were Palestinian, you might end up drinking fertilizer.



Potassium nitrate is also known as saltpeter, which is, among other, things a well known anaphrodisiac (i.e. the opposite of an aphrodisiac).

 

If the Israeli's are feeling really nasty, they might want to spread a rumor that a large portion of the shipment of 'sugar' has gone missing and was probably being sold on the black market as sugar.

I should think it's an anaphrodisiac.  I would have my date most disturbed if I learned someone had spread it all over the chair I was sitting on.
But, saltpeter? You can get that from any decayed biological product. The Bourbons used to have agents go round to gather it from farmers' stables. No doubt these were not the ones in great favor at Versailes.
I find it hard to believe that Palestinians can't get a hold of it themselves. Palestinians aren't famous for day to day technical ingenuity but surely they know how to gather saltpeter from their from their own sources.


 
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