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Subject: Message to Herald 12345
2 Eagle    1/25/2008 2:42:21 PM
I tried to answer you using the same thread but could not do so. I would like continue our discussion.
 
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Herald12345    Why should I?   1/25/2008 3:06:24 PM
Unless you have something tangible to offer like an apology [to Shirrush], I have no interest.

Herald

 
 
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2 Eagle       1/25/2008 4:27:43 PM

Unless you have something tangible to offer like an apology [to Shirrush], I have no interest.

Herald

 

Shirrush has no apology coming. He badmouthed the US and I called him on it.
As regards your diatribe, it is of no import to me if we never communicate again. You spouted a lot of words...how come you did not wait for an answer? It's the same thing that happened when I tried to respond to Shirrush, I could not get to him, I kept getting an error message. That's why I cut into your thread...simply to get to Shirrush. You acted like I walked into your bathroom unannounced. What was the big deal? Then you became his defence lawyer ...cretin this...cretin that. Try increasing your vocabulary. Anyway, no real American would put up with the things he said. Does he have a right to say them? Sure, and I have a right to comment on them, just like I am doing with you also.

 
 
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tianjinrob    C'mon...   1/25/2008 5:58:50 PM
.... do we really have to agonize through another HTJ-style prepubescent tantrum? I wonder if HTK has returned to us again?
 
Come to think of it, I was kinda' missing the old guy... maybe we could let him go, just for old time sake?
 
Nah. Now, back to playing catch up on the last two month's worth of reading posts... I just love the holidays; always brings out everyone's best.  Makes me wish I had more time on my hands to post and discuss here.
 
All the Best,
TJrob
 
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2 Eagle       1/26/2008 9:47:32 AM



Unless you have something tangible to offer like an apology [to Shirrush], I have no interest.

Herald

 


Shirrush has no apology coming. He badmouthed the US and I called him on it.
As regards your diatribe, it is of no import to me if we never communicate again. You spouted a lot of words...how come you did not wait for an answer? It's the same thing that happened when I tried to respond to Shirrush, I could not get to him, I kept getting an error message. That's why I cut into your thread...simply to get to Shirrush. You acted like I walked into your bathroom unannounced. What was the big deal? Then you became his defence lawyer ...cretin this...cretin that. Try increasing your vocabulary. Anyway, no real American would put up with the things he said. Does he have a right to say them? Sure, and I have a right to comment on them, just like I am doing with you also.


 


For references to my statements go to yahoo and find "The Israel Lobby", by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. That confirms the things I stated and more. Read that and tell me where my comments regarding "hand biting" and spying were incorrect. If you have a problem with my attitude..rise above it...read the article and tell me where I erred.
 
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swhitebull       1/26/2008 10:07:17 AM






Unless you have something tangible to offer like an apology [to Shirrush], I have no interest.

Herald

 




Shirrush has no apology coming. He badmouthed the US and I called him on it.
As regards your diatribe, it is of no import to me if we never communicate again. You spouted a lot of words...how come you did not wait for an answer? It's the same thing that happened when I tried to respond to Shirrush, I could not get to him, I kept getting an error message. That's why I cut into your thread...simply to get to Shirrush. You acted like I walked into your bathroom unannounced. What was the big deal? Then you became his defence lawyer ...cretin this...cretin that. Try increasing your vocabulary. Anyway, no real American would put up with the things he said. Does he have a right to say them? Sure, and I have a right to comment on them, just like I am doing with you also.




 




For references to my statements go to yahoo and find "The Israel Lobby", by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. That confirms the things I stated and more. Read that and tell me where my comments regarding "hand biting" and spying were incorrect. If you have a problem with my attitude..rise above it...read the article and tell me where I erred.



See Herald?   Give enough rope and tripe, they invariably out themselves - this one didnt take long, did it?   Walt and Mearsheimer have been thoroughly discredited by academia except for the Juan Coles and Edward Said disciples of the world, they refuse to debate to defend their piece of shit work in public debate, and now we know Baldy's real agenda here. I give him less than a day on these boards.
 
 
swhitebull -  not even worth refuting this piece of crap - it's been done here already too many times and grows tiresome.
 
 
W and M have been totally discussed here already - any source that the Aryan
 
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swhitebull    Refuting Eagles ANTI-SEMITIC WALT AND MEARSHIT CITATION   1/26/2008 10:10:06 AM

Dershowitz's Response to Walt & Mearsheimer

Professor Alan Dershowitz has posted on the Harvard Kennedy School of Government website his 45-page (with 157 footnotes) response to the Walt & Mearsheimer paper on the ?Israel Lobby.? In his response, Dershowitz expressly questions their motive:

 

[A]s I will show, this study is so filled with distortions, so empty of originality or new evidence, so tendentious in its tone, so lacking in nuance and balance, so unscholarly in its approach, so riddled with obvious factual errors that could easily have been checked (but obviously were not), and so dependent on biased, extremist and anti-American sources, as to raise the question of motive: what would motivate two well recognized academics to depart so grossly from their usual standards of academic writing and research in order to produce a ?study paper? that contributes so little to the existing scholarship while being so susceptible to misuse? [Page 6].

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dershowitz repeats the question again 38 pages later, at the end of his paper, but does not answer it. After summarizing some of the more egregious factual mistakes and easily refutable distortions that even a serious student, much less a scholar, would never make, Dershowitz leaves it at this: ?I simply do not understand, what is the motive?? (emphasis in original).

 

 

 

 

Perhaps, since Walt & Mearsheimer?s paper makes the same argument, in the same tone, with the same subtlety as such prior scholars as Charles Lindbergh (here), Louis Farrakhan (here) and David Duke (here), Dershowitz?s questions are simply rhetorical. 

Or perhaps the failure to provide what, by the end of the paper, is an obvious answer is simply Dershowitz?s attempt to comply with the new Harvard Kennedy School ?Guidelines for Submitting Responses to KSG Faculty Research Working Papers? (there do not appear to be any Guidelines for posting the ?research working papers? themselves):

Full-time Harvard University faculty members may submit a response to a KSG faculty research working paper. To be eligible for posting on this website, all response papers must be academic in form and content, with references and footnotes as appropriate, must respond directly to the intellectual ideas and evidence presented in the original working paper, and must avoid ad hominem critiques.

 

 

By raising the elephant-in-the-room question but not answering it, Dershowitz may simply be trying to ?respond directly to the intellectual ideas and evidence? presented by Walt & Mearsheimer -- such as they are -- without running afoul of the prohibited ?ad hominem critique? that an explicit answer might necessarily entail. 

 

 

 

But the failure to provide any alternative hypothesis is itself an answer (and in any event, the answer is here). It needs no further explication.

 

 

 

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Herald12345    Your error.   1/26/2008 10:13:36 AM
Is in assuming that the "Israel lobby" is a monolith, is in assuming that people who  are Jewish-American behave any differently than anybody else. "Insert name here-American [ever hear of the "Irish lobby" or of the efforts of the Kennedys to advance Irish interests sans American interests with the United Kingdom?]

Maybe you should look at the Saudi lobby or the PRC bandit lobby for a balanced political comparison of influence?

Maybe you should look at French and British spying against the United States?

You have no case.

You let your emotions cloud your judgment instead of correctly assessing the exact truth and weighing the known facts in evidence..

You still are expected to apologize

Now you owe two.

One to Shirrush for imputing motives and viewpoints to him that are not at variance to a rational Human being.

And one to me for attempting to take me for a fool.

I know a hawk from a handsaw; if you get my drift.

Herald
 
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Ezekiel       1/26/2008 11:36:59 AM
as I wrote on the "shirrush" post...it is not about alliance in general, but Israel in particular.

Mearsheimer/Walt wrote what is today the PC and diluted version of Protocols of Zion, and now we can all understand what colored Eagles prejudice... shoddy academia, innuendo and misrepresent color this work to such a degree that has been deemed by most credible authorities to be a work of motivations rather then facts. How someone could unabashed post  using this as a primary source has shown his stripes. Thank you Eagle for your honesty it has truelly enlightened us more baout you then what you have to say.
 
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2 Eagle       1/27/2008 9:54:59 AM

Is in assuming that the "Israel lobby" is a monolith, is in assuming that people who  are Jewish-American behave any differently than anybody else. "Insert name here-American [ever hear of the "Irish lobby" or of the efforts of the Kennedys to advance Irish interests sans American interests with the United Kingdom?]

Maybe you should look at the Saudi lobby or the PRC bandit lobby for a balanced political comparison of influence?

Maybe you should look at French and British spying against the United States?

You have no case.

You let your emotions cloud your judgment instead of correctly assessing the exact truth and weighing the known facts in evidence..

You still are expected to apologize

Now you owe two.

One to Shirrush for imputing motives and viewpoints to him that are not at variance to a rational Human being.

And one to me for attempting to take me for a fool.

I know a hawk from a handsaw; if you get my drift.

Herald
Herald..I don't understand  the " hawk/handsaw" bit.
Anyway, I do have a question for you...et al...Why would Mersheimer and Walt write an article that would destroy their credibility and careers? Where's the logic?
Meanwhile, I'm not running away. I'm perusing the article by the above authors. I have printed out 40 pgs. to study for a reply and, irregardless of what you may think my comments will be, as they have been, honest. It's going to take some time sionce it leads to other writers, like Dershowitz, et al. At any rate, if I leave now it will just speed up your Alzheimers and you don't need that.

 
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2 Eagle       1/27/2008 10:03:57 AM



Dershowitz's Response to Walt & Mearsheimer




Professor Alan Dershowitz has posted on the Harvard Kennedy School of Government website his 45-page (with 157 footnotes) response to the Walt & Mearsheimer paper on the ?Israel Lobby.? In his response, Dershowitz expressly questions their motive:



 



[A]s I will show, this study is so filled with distortions, so empty of originality or new evidence, so tendentious in its tone, so lacking in nuance and balance, so unscholarly in its approach, so riddled with obvious factual errors that could easily have been checked (but obviously were not), and so dependent on biased, extremist and anti-American sources, as to raise the question of motive: what would motivate two well recognized academics to depart so grossly from their usual standards of academic writing and research in order to produce a ?study paper? that contributes so little to the existing scholarship while being so susceptible to misuse? [Page 6].

 


 


 



 


 


 


Dershowitz repeats the question again 38 pages later, at the end of his paper, but does not answer it. After summarizing some of the more egregious factual mistakes and easily refutable distortions that even a serious student, much less a scholar, would never make, Dershowitz leaves it at this: ?I simply do not understand, what is the motive?? (emphasis in original).

 


 


 


 


Perhaps, since Walt & Mearsheimer?s paper makes the same argument, in the same tone, with the same subtlety as such prior scholars as Charles Lindbergh (here), Louis Farrakhan (here) and David Duke (here), Dershowitz?s questions are simply rhetorical. 


Or perhaps the failure to provide what, by the end of the paper, is an obvious answer is simply Dershowitz?s attempt to comply with the new Harvard Kennedy School ?Guidelines for Submitting Responses to KSG Faculty Research Working Papers? (there do not appear to be any Guidelines for posting the ?research working papers? themselves):




Full-time Harvard University faculty members may submit a response to a KSG faculty research working paper. To be eligible for posting on this website, all response papers must be academic in form and content, with references and footnotes as appropriate, must respond directly to the intellectual ideas and evidence presented in the original working paper, and must avoid ad hominem critiques.



 


 



By raising the elephant-in-the-room question but not answering it, Dershowitz may simply be trying to ?respond directly to the intellectual ideas and evidence? presented by Walt & Mearsheimer -- such as they are -- without running afoul of the prohibited ?ad hominem critique? that an explicit answer might necessarily entail. 


 


 

 
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