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Subject: Guests for dinner
battar    4/21/2008 2:35:26 PM
Hamas claims that the captive soldier Gilad Shalit is well treated. (It is actually part of the Islamic religion not to mis-treat prisoners - but their is a tenuous link between fanatics and true religion). So I suggest that Israel return the favor and treat Palestinian prisoners with the same respect, in other words, no trial, no contact with the outside world - no telephone, visits, radio, TV, etc. If they don't like it they know what they can do. The only way to beat terrorists/guerrillas/freedom fighters is to play by their own rules. Our UN-style rules of war are only good for fighting the Swiss. If you going o be nice and civil about warfare, whats the point of the war?
 
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Shirrush    Right! let's kick their asses!   4/21/2008 6:14:09 PM
The Swiss, after bankrolling Hitler, are now in bed with Ahmadinutjob. Not only that, they're a bunch of preachy, curmudgeonly and arrogant pissants nobody likes, and it's time to take that beautiful country of theirs they don't deserve, eat all their chocolate, drink their wine, overturn their garbage cans, and send them to refugee camps somewhere in between Bari and Messina.

As to Gil'ad Schalit, I'm frankly worried. There's absolutely no possibility in Hell our intel doesn't know where he's held. Once upon a time, we had commandos, special ops and stuff. Ask Barak (the real one, not the Obama muppet), he probably remembers some of that. What happened to the IDF?



 
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Hugo    Hopp Schwiiz   5/2/2008 9:59:09 AM

The Swiss, after bankrolling Hitler, are now in bed with Ahmadinutjob. Not only that, they're a bunch of preachy, curmudgeonly and arrogant pissants nobody likes, and it's time to take that beautiful country of theirs they don't deserve, eat all their chocolate, drink their wine, overturn their garbage cans, and send them to refugee camps somewhere in between Bari and Messina.

As to Gil'ad Schalit, I'm frankly worried. There's absolutely no possibility in Hell our intel doesn't know where he's held. Once upon a time, we had commandos, special ops and stuff. Ask Barak (the real one, not the Obama muppet), he probably remembers some of that. What happened to the IDF?




  I have out myself Shirrush.  I like the Swiss.  If everyone behaved as they did the world would be a better place.  The fact that others do not is no besmirch upon their name.  Yes they're conservative, have somewhat of a laager mentality but so what?  As a nation surrounded at different times through their history by expansionist and hostile neighbours, they could even be an example to Israel of self-preservation.  Last time I was there, I noticed a lot of your coreligionists (albeit of the Orthodox variety) so things can't be too bad.  At the very least, I'll make the claim that they have a significant degree of genuine democracy which is more than what can be said for members of the European Union.

Besides, living between Bari and Messina needn't be too bad, unless you still have a sense of sent and you happen to be too close to a Neapolitan street. 

Incidentally, it's all over the German press that you (Israel) have turned 60 this year.  I hope that for the both of you (Shirrush & Battar) and your children, the next sixty are significantly less turbulent and that the 120th, or much preferably earlier, can be celebrated in peace. 

 
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FJV       5/3/2008 9:21:45 AM
If there is one nation on this earth that has made sure it benefitted of someone's misery every time, then it's Switzerland. The Swiss has made money by enabling every major drugs dealer, every dictator, every terrorist organisation, every fraud, every suspect secret service to stash away their stolen money in their secret banking system. They have earned and are still earning money from diverse sources as the Nazi party to never claimed Jewish bank accounts to money never claimed from the soviet party of the USSR. You can be sure the Swiss are making money now of Zimbabwe, Sudan and North Korea (Kim's sure to have a Swiss bank account). And then they have the guts to act like sanctimonious pricks.

Of course the odds of terrorists, secret services, criminals and dicators attacking the bank where they have their own stolen money hidden away are zero.









 
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Hugo    Banks and their money   5/4/2008 10:12:11 AM

If there is one nation on this earth that has made sure it benefitted of someone's misery every time, then it's Switzerland. The Swiss has made money by enabling every major drugs dealer, every dictator, every terrorist organisation, every fraud, every suspect secret service to stash away their stolen money in their secret banking system. They have earned and are still earning money from diverse sources as the Nazi party to never claimed Jewish bank accounts to money never claimed from the soviet party of the USSR. You can be sure the Swiss are making money now of Zimbabwe, Sudan and North Korea (Kim's sure to have a Swiss bank account). And then they have the guts to act like sanctimonious pricks.

Of course the odds of terrorists, secret services, criminals and dicators attacking the bank where they have their own stolen money hidden away are zero.


  Always Benefitting from another's misery?  I think that's a terrific generalisation.  The conduct of their banks during the second world war was abysmal but that's been settled. 

I don't know what evidence you have suggesting that every major drug dealer, dicatator etc etc has holdings in Switzlerland but I'd be happy to see it.  It might surprise you to know that there are plenty of other offshore tax havens with secretive banking laws not a few of them under the jurisdiction of other European nations.  As for the Soviets, they parked most of their gold in London and whatever they may or may not have left in Switzerland is probably a pittance compared to what Russia owes in defaulted banks loans.

I'm afraid that without any evidence I cannot be sure that the Swiss are making money out of Darfur, North Korea etc, etc.  I wouldn't make such a blanket allegation against a nations less noble than that of Switzerland.  I have little doubt that there are probably billions in Switzerland that have been derived from activities we would describe as immoral but I'm not certain that it is the jobs of banks to conduct investigations into the private affairs of its clients.  Switzerland, unlike many other nations in West, let alone the rest of the world has a fairly low level of government interference in private affairs and quite frankly I hope that it stays that way.  If you don't like that fact then don't open an account or own shares in Credit Suisse. 

To be even more frank, I'd be asking the far more significant question as to how dictators come into the possession of such large sums of money.  No doubt more sustainable than your allegations is the fact that other Western nations, prime amongst them the large powers, have given enormous sums of money in "aid," "grants," and less openly bribes to those very same dictators in return for access to the resources of the countries they control.  Whether it's the USofA, Great Britain, France or even the Netherlands, most of the West deserves far more probing questions about the sources of the very funds that dictators are able to deposit rather than the willingness of banks to accept those deposits. 



 
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FJV    Just a quick google   5/5/2008 12:59:55 PM
Mugabe:
"http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/people,839,how-mugabe-was-outfoxed-and-lost-millions,23811"

Marcos:
"http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A05EFD7113DF930A15753C1A96E958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all"

Arafat:
"http://www.likud.nl/extr349.html"

Bashir (president of Sudan)
"http://www.insightsudan.co.ke/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=40"
" Bashir and his cabal have been pushed to the wall by economic and political sanctions before, and survived. They can do so again — their funds, now considerably swollen by increased oil revenues, are hidden away in Saudi and Swiss bank accounts."

Lebanese drugs crime:
"http://www.10452lccc.com/reports/rene.traficing.htm"
"The laundering of the drug arriving from Lebanon is done especially in Switzerland. The drug is sold in Europe, chiefly in Spain, the money is then placed in a branch of the Swiss Bank in the Iberian peninsula and then transferred to three different banks located in Switzerland, thanks to multiple transactions. "

Kim Jong Ill:
"http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/01/12/story218812528.asp"
"
According to Newsweek, Kim Jong-il has salted away more than $4 billion in Swiss bank accounts, and used forced labour to mine gold from a mountain in Korea, which is also deposited in his Swiss bank account. He has six villas in Europe, including one in Geneva, and two more in Russia and China."

Nope nothing but fine upstanding folk, those Swiss bank managers.




 
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jastayme3       5/6/2008 2:04:25 AM

If there is one nation on this earth that has made sure it benefitted of someone's misery every time, then it's Switzerland. The Swiss has made money by enabling every major drugs dealer, every dictator, every terrorist organisation, every fraud, every suspect secret service to stash away their stolen money in their secret banking system. They have earned and are still earning money from diverse sources as the Nazi party to never claimed Jewish bank accounts to money never claimed from the soviet party of the USSR. You can be sure the Swiss are making money now of Zimbabwe, Sudan and North Korea (Kim's sure to have a Swiss bank account). And then they have the guts to act like sanctimonious pricks.

Of course the odds of terrorists, secret services, criminals and dicators attacking the bank where they have their own stolen money hidden away are zero.









I can think of at least two nations of which similar things have habitually been said. One of them I belong to. The other one
several of the posters on this thread belong to. I hope you are not claiming to have found the Protocals of the Elders of Helvetia.

 
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FJV       5/6/2008 12:26:58 PM
Dumping crap on the US is mostly because of some weird inferiority complex among the European elite, which is then promoted to the average guy that is not smarter than their TV. The Swiss, though I have overstated my case, enable a lot or have enabled a lot of dictators to rob their nations dirt poor and act all smug as if they are holier than the pope. In my opinion for such a small country they're doing a disproportionate amount of crap.

Also what irks me is the fact that they still earn money from the holocaust. With 6 million Jews exterminated there is bound to be plenty of Jewish money in Swiss bank accounts of which all the heirs have been killed. Those Swiss bank accounts will continue to generate revenue for the banks. They only return ill gotten gains from dictators when people know of the accounts when the accounts are not discovered, nothing happens.

PS
The Swiss will not take over the world. Doing so would not make enough money.



 
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jastayme3       5/6/2008 1:42:43 PM

Dumping crap on the US is mostly because of some weird inferiority complex among the European elite, which is then promoted to the average guy that is not smarter than their TV. The Swiss, though I have overstated my case, enable a lot or have enabled a lot of dictators to rob their nations dirt poor and act all smug as if they are holier than the pope. In my opinion for such a small country they're doing a disproportionate amount of crap.

Also what irks me is the fact that they still earn money from the holocaust. With 6 million Jews exterminated there is bound to be plenty of Jewish money in Swiss bank accounts of which all the heirs have been killed. Those Swiss bank accounts will continue to generate revenue for the banks. They only return ill gotten gains from dictators when people know of the accounts when the accounts are not discovered, nothing happens.

PS
The Swiss will not take over the world. Doing so would not make enough money.





THE Swiss? You mean every shepherd in lederhosen makes money from the holocaust in between
his trips to the beer hall? Stereotypes are necessary for convenience of thought even at a slight expense
in precision. And criticizeing a nation is legitimate. But this is going beyond that and is hinging on a blood-libel.
Some Jews were really Bolshevics. Some were also really greedy merchants of death. Some were also loan sharks.
Come to think of it a few Jews even took part in killing Christ. "The" Jews did none of those things.
For that matter Jews have always been making business deals with tyrants. I never thought to blame "The" Jews for that or even the specific money lender who made said deal. In fact I rather admired those Medieval merchants who with their cleverness humiliated arrogant robber barons who preyed on serfs and peaceful travellers.
Now presumably you are not suggesting an anti-swiss pogram so all this is better on that account. But you are really going off the wall.

And yes there is money from evil people in Swiss banks. They are banks, places where people put money. There are also
evil people who go skiing in Switzerland but I am sure you are not suggesting that the Swiss pass a law saying "no evil people may ski here". Likewise they can't pass a law that says no evil people may put money in Swiss banks. In any case think about the pot and the kettle. Every time you(or I) go into 7-eleven you are going to an establishment that sells magizines glorifying the ungentlemanly exploitation of women. Every time you by something that is "Made in China" you are buying something that might have been made in a concentration camp for it is rumored that they sometimes use political prisoners for that purpose-practical folk they. Every time you drink coffee mocha you are contributing to slavery(we know what is done to Female Sudanese-what else are male captives good for but as plantation workers). Now I am making a reductio ad absurdum-nobody can avoid the taint of someone else's sin. But that is just the point and I am using a reductio ad absurdum to counter an absurdity, the idea that Switzerland is condemned because a few bankers made a few deals with a few tyrants.
As for profiting by the holocaust quite a few countries did. America especially holds world power indirectly because of the Holocaust.The State of Israel exists largly because of the Holocaust-that is almost it's reason for being though only a few mystical nationalists quite think of it as a net gain. But it was politically beneficial-and even socially as it made anti-semitism less respectable. India, Pakistan, and most third world states can also trace their political existance indirectly and sometimes not so indirectly to the War if not to the Holocaust. Actually among the countries that profited least by the Holocaust besides the victims was Germany. Which vindictive thought kind of warms the cockles of ones inner barbarian. But that is neither here not there. The point is that you cannot condemn a whole nation merely because some members of such makes business deals with tyrants.


 
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FJV    Yes the Swiss   5/7/2008 2:02:05 PM
That money generates a lot of tax revenue for the Swiss govt., with which they pay for lot of nice things for the Swiss. Without the banking secrecy their tax rate would be higher. Easy money for the Swiss govt., which is the reason why they are in no hurry to change Swiss bank secrecy. Oh and did I mention that the artificially lower tax rate also helps with competition?

Source:
"http://www.greaterzuricharea.ch/default_en.asp?pgn=/content/03/03_005en.asp"

"Swiss tax rates for companies and individuals are among the lowest anywhere in Europe. Corporate taxes are approx. 16-25%, while individuals are taxed at rates between 5 % and 20%. A careful choice of corporate structure can even push the effective rate of taxation to below 10%. Stable political conditions, a liberal legal framework and the tax competition between cantons and municipalities result in a constant low tax burden."

But I guess for some libertarians there cannot possibly be anything wrong with that even if it means that the little money the dirt poor have that is rightfully theirs gets stolen. They should make a law that state: Our banks will not accept stolen money, any deposited money which turns out to be stolen will be returned as soon as possible to their rightfull owners.

You know protecting private property is of main importance for libertarians, that should include protecting property of poor people from thieving dictators, not helping them to get away with theft.





 
 
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