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Subject: Proper use of Artillery
F22    3/26/2005 4:08:55 PM
Oops! http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_083011444.html
 
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Carl S    RE:Red Bag   8/21/2005 3:40:11 PM
What we ran thru our m198 howitzers was red color & zone 8. Flipping further through my handbook I see the the following single increment charges for 155mm M185 & M 199 cannonon tubes (M109 & M198 howitzers): M119, M119A1 DODAC 1320-533, zone 8 single increment white bag charge, 26 inches long M119A2 DODAC 1320-533, zone 7 single increment red bag charge, 29 inches long M203 DODAC 1320-532, zone 8s single increment red bag charge, 31.25 inches long The handbook notes the M119A2 has a base igniter pad and lacks the center igniter core of the M119/M119A1. Next a look at section 7 - projectile/propellant charge combinations shows: For the M185 cannon tube (M109 howitzers) the M119A1, M119A2 are authorized with all HE & HERA shells. (the M119 is not authorized with any HERA ammo) For the M199 cannon tube (M198 howitzer) only the HERA M548A1 & the WP M825 are authorized with the M203 charge. The M119 series are the same as with the M185 cannon tube. Assuming Ft Sill did not give me a bogus handbook and the collaborating data in my TFT 155-AM-2 is good all this suggests we are both correct. You were shooting a charge 8 white bag & I was shooting a charge 8s red bag. Glad we settled that :) So where were you shooting test trials? & what other arty battalions were you with? I started my arty career in the 12th Marines and spent the bulk of it in the 14th Marines.
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Red Bag   8/21/2005 6:02:10 PM
I work at Yuma Proving Ground, I am the engineer on the M777 program based there. Its not quite settled yet ;) Im sure your M203 were red, however the original M203 charge had to be reformulated to reduce tube wear, and the charge I am referring to is the M203 A1 (Note: Alpha One) which is definitely cream coloured and refered to as Zone 8s. This charge has entirely replaced the original M203. Now its settled ;)
 
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Yimmy    RE:Red Bag   8/21/2005 9:27:55 PM
"This charge has entirely replaced the original M203." Yeah, but who still uses M203's anyway?
 
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Carl S    RE:Red Bag   8/21/2005 10:11:19 PM
Hmm...the red M203 also had 8s printed on the bag. Leastways those I actually looked at. I'm guessing you could not restrain yourself & dug out the books too. No hurry on getting the M777 fielded. After all we were still training with the M101 howitzers in 1991. The M198 ought to last as long. Yimmy...are you refering to the 203mm caliber cannon? We are debating the color cloth on M119 & M203 propelant bags.
 
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gf0012-aust    Red Bag - artyengineer   8/21/2005 10:18:38 PM
"I am the engineer on the M777 program based there." how is that going now? I was involved with a recoil management project 4 years ago and the XM-777 was going through some substantial grief. the recoil was stuffing up the optics and also causing the spades to fracture after "x" amount of rounds. they head heaps of problem with recoil induced fatigue on the mounts.
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Red Bag Carl S   8/22/2005 10:06:58 AM
I think we have the very important colour issue resolved ;)
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Red Bag - artyengineer   8/22/2005 10:18:54 AM
Havent had and structural problems in ages due to the move away from fabrication of spades and trails to castings. Optics continue to cause problems occasionally, but that is due to quality control on the instruments themselves rather than fundamental design issues. So far we are up to weapon 38 delivered, split between Ft Sill, Camp Pendleton and 29 Palms.
 
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