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Subject: Look out
Weasel    5/14/2006 9:00:28 PM
My "crazy" Uncle is in town for the National Skirmish shoot in Winchester, WV. (Do a google for "Fort Shanondoah"). He asked me how things were going and I said I had a bit of a rabbit problem, so he showed me the 4.5 inch black powder mortar he had in the back of the pickup truck---- as if that is the answer to my problems. Anyway, it is a good shoot, so if you get the chance and are in the area take a little look see. It is not a reanactment. Its all about keeping "Civil War" hardware in top notch and competing with it. cheers w
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Look out   5/14/2006 11:31:36 PM
That civil war era stuff will mess mess you up, I have seen a few cannons scientifically assessed here at Yuma Proving Ground for the History Channel and the Discovery Channel. And I have "heard" that a civil war cannon out shot a canadian forces LG1 105mm howitzer at some competition. Thats just hearsay though as I cant find official confirmation of that.
 
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doggtag    RE:Look out   5/15/2006 5:35:24 AM
AE, When you say "outshot", do you mean range, rate of fire, or what? Range, I'd have to see it to believe it (a cannonball being fired over 16km?). Rate of fire, I could actually understand that: artillery of that era was considerably thick walled as compared to today's barrels. Metallurgy aside, black powder didn't generate the kind of high pressures and heat that today's propellant chemistry can generate, so I could easily see a Civil War cannon not heating up anywhere near as fast as a modern howitzer, even with all the steps used when employing muzzle-loaded cannon, thus allowing a greater sustained rate (one wonders how long many of those guns at Gettysburg fired). (the fact that the black powder propellants didn't generate as much energy is also a reason I doubt it could get even remotely close to 10 miles range...) There was an interesting tidbit I vaguely recall about Civil War era cannon: concerning the Union Navy's exchanges with the CSS Virginia (Merrimack) prior to the USS Monitor's arrival. I don't recall which Union ship it was squaring off against the Virginia, but the report was to the fact that the ship's main battery, firing with 15 pound charges, couldn't penetrate the Virginia's iron plating armor. But inquiries determined that the guns were designed to safely fire 30 pound charges (the weight in powder, not shot), and firing the same ammunition as such should've (mathematically) penetrated. I don't know if any post-war tests were actually done to confirm this, and I don't remember if I read it in a book or saw it on History, Discovery, or Nat'l Geographic Channels. But I do remember it was within the past few years (pretty sure it was a TV documentary).
 
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Heorot    RE:Look out   5/15/2006 8:23:10 AM
The reason why the international limit for the seas around a country was set at 3 miles is that 3 miles was the limiting range for shore batteries in the days of black powder. Field artillery of that era is highly unlikely to exceed that range.
 
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S-2    RE:Look out   5/15/2006 8:37:49 AM
Gosh, I'd assume that it was a direct-fire shootoff. Even rate of fire would be questionable with a muzzle-loading weapon. Still, canister and grape was horrific at range. I never fired our 105mm APERS round (beehive), and can't recall what min range at muzzle action would be. I know that we had no APERS ammo for our M109A1-A3. Instead, "killer-junior". 155mm M107HE set with an MTSQ M564 fuze at muzzle action. I'd think you'd control range by cutting charges at that fuze setting. Knew NCOs who'd shot it in Nam. Closest was about 400meters, IIRC. Knew guys who'd shot 105mm beehive APERS as well. Much closer, much more deadly.
 
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Weasel    here's the link   5/15/2006 8:52:34 AM
http://www.n-ssa.org/ the cannon is on this Saturday IIRC... and I am not sure, but I think they limit the number of shots to 12 over a period of time to stop "cook off". Re: ROF, It looks pretty impressive, especially if the powder is in Bags. But the guys just take it slow after the first 2 or 3 shots, as its all about being safe and having fun. the other thing is they can't see the target after 2 or 3 shots.... There are also lots of shops and stuff behind the firing line over the creek, where you can lose several thousand dollars quickly enough by buying literally anything civil war. And re shore batteries, I think there was only guy there who had one, but it is a static piece sitting in his field. cheers W
 
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doggtag    RE:here's the link   5/15/2006 3:56:30 PM
One thing I always liked about going to re-enactments and such (don't participate myself, but have relatives who do) is the smell of all that smoke and burnt powder. Just something about it that gets in a person's blood and gets the heart racing... (like that guy from Apocalypse Now about the napalm). Also get it after a nice long fireworks display (if you're close enough to the launch site). For me, it's like the rush hunters claim to get when stalking their prey, or after a successful kill.
 
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