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Subject: Maximum Range for Artillery
Roman    9/11/2004 8:07:38 AM
What is the maximum range for artillery, when it is using 'conventional' ammunition (that means NOT using base-bleed or rocket assisted ammunition)?
 
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Vikinghorn6    8 inches   2/2/2011 3:13:29 PM
 
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45-Shooter    Small mistakes?   12/5/2011 8:32:03 PM


The only way the M198 can hit 30km is with the M549 series HERA (RAP), or High Explosive Rocket Assist, rounds. Typically, all the other ammunition, depending on type, maxes out between 16 and 18 1/2 km.

But even though the newer Bull-type guns have improved-ballistic/aerodynamic shells, when firing standard NATO-type ammo (those that can), these newer 45- and 52- caliber guns (over the M198'S 39 caliber barrel) CAN and DO fire the same NATO rounds to greater distances (although, as you mentioned, Shooter, these shells have limitations when firing at higher charges/barrel pressures.)

By Jane's Armour and Artillery, the 39-cal M198 155mm howitzer can throw the NATO M107 HE round out to 18,100m max.
Whereas the 52-cal FH2000 155mm weapon can fire the same NATO M107 round out to 24,000m.

Many of the rounds throughout the NATO inventory (besides the M107) ARE indeed cleared to be fired by many of the newer 45- and 52- caliber guns as well as the older 39- caliber ordnances.

With the continuing development of more cannon-launched PGMs and extended range munitions, barrel length may, in the future, only contribute minimal increases in overall range.

Even as many militaries are adopting the 45- and 52- caliber ordnances for their artillery needs, the US has opted still for the 39 caliber gun: United Defense's NLOS-C variant of the FCS, in concept demonstrator form, sports the 39 caliber weapon of the M777 Ultralightweight Field Howitzer (easily identifiable on the vehicle because the barrel still has the towing pintle attached.)
The M777 features an un-assisted range of 24,700m. Despite having the same barrel length of the M198, various gun improvements and a stronger breech mechanism and barrel allowing greater charge capacity offers a longer range from the same barrel length.

So in its day, certainly the M198 had its merits. But it is now apparent it does not have the most ideal performance, regardless of shell lethality, for the battlefields of the future..


 
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45-Shooter       12/5/2011 9:26:27 PM



By Jane's Armour and Artillery, the 39-cal M198 155mm howitzer can throw the NATO M107 HE round out to 18,100m max.

Whereas the 52-cal FH2000 155mm weapon can fire the same NATO M107 round out to 24,000m.


Many of the rounds throughout the NATO inventory (besides the M107) ARE indeed cleared to be fired by many of the newer 45- and 52- caliber guns as well as the older 39- caliber ordnances.


With the continuing development of more cannon-launched PGMs and extended range munitions, barrel length may, in the future, only contribute minimal increases in overall range.


Even as many militaries are adopting the 45- and 52- caliber ordnances for their artillery needs, the US has opted still for the 39 caliber gun: United Defense's NLOS-C variant of the FCS, in concept demonstrator form, sports the 39 caliber weapon of the M777 Ultralightweight Field Howitzer (easily identifiable on the vehicle because the barrel still has the towing pintle attached.)

The M777 features an un-assisted range of 24,700m. Despite having the same barrel length of the M198, various gun improvements and a stronger breech mechanism and barrel allowing greater charge capacity offers a longer range from the same barrel length.


So in its day, certainly the M198 had its merits. But it is now apparent it does not have the most ideal performance, regardless of shell lethality, for the battlefields of the future..






 
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heraldabc       12/5/2011 9:42:10 PM
Working tube pressure limits and force load limits for the recoil mechanism mean anything to you Shooter? Of course not. There are mechanical and chemical combustion LIMITS to howitzers. Thirty nine to forty five calibers is about where a gun-howitzer will operate comfortably at medium tube pressures. Anything over that and you start to drift into thick barreled high pressure tube GUN territory. 
 
Hamilcar 
 
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LB       12/5/2011 10:04:55 PM
The question is of course whether the extra weight of a 155/52 is worth the range?  Consider the 155/39 fires guided rounds out to 40km while the 155/52 does so to 60km.  That offers very considerable extra coverage and reduces need for fire bases which saves a lot more weight than worrying about the weight of the gun.
 
One can make an argument for 155/39 or 155/45 towed but for a self propelled gun the 155/52 does seem to be a choice many nations are making in the German PzH 2000, Korean K-9 (Turkish T-155), etc.
 
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45-Shooter       12/6/2011 1:36:30 AM


Working tube pressure limits and force load limits for the recoil mechanism mean anything to you Shooter? Of course not. There are mechanical and chemical combustion LIMITS to howitzers. Thirty nine to forty five calibers is about where a gun-howitzer will operate comfortably at medium tube pressures. Anything over that and you start to drift into thick barreled high pressure tube GUN territory. 

 

Hamilcar 



 
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45-Shooter       12/6/2011 1:38:09 AM


Working tube pressure limits and force load limits for the recoil mechanism mean anything to you Shooter? Of course not. There are mechanical and chemical combustion LIMITS to howitzers. Thirty nine to forty five calibers is about where a gun-howitzer will operate comfortably at medium tube pressures. Anything over that and you start to drift into thick barreled high pressure tube GUN territory. 

 

Hamilcar 



 
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edistocreek       3/25/2012 9:06:21 AM
When talking about range, what about extending the range of a nuclear round fired from the M110A2? Is there a way to push the range beyond 29km? How could you achieve a greater range given the mass of the round and the caliber of the barrel? What effects would extending the range have on the howiter?
 
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edistocreek       3/25/2012 4:06:49 PM
When talking about range, what about extending the range of a nuclear round fired from the M110A2? Is there a way to push the range beyond 29km? How could you achieve a greater range given the mass of the round and the caliber of the barrel? What effects would extending the range have on the howiter?
 
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HeavyD       9/4/2012 6:04:13 PM
Is a discarding sabot 'conventional'?  Higher velocity with less drag = longer distance.
 
But in a practical sense it's a lot easier to get improved range, accuracy and effect with 'smart' rounds that either have rocket assist, glide and 'steerable' capabilities.  See the latest article on the new 120mm mortar shells - doubling the range from 8+ km to 17km with 20' accuracy.  Distance multiplies aiming errors and environmental factors, dumb projectiles at max range are, well, dumb.
 
Also look at the Israelis - replacing their 155mm artillery with 160mm rockets.  They get better range, larger payloads, higher precision with guided rounds, higher ROF, easier transport, more flexibility.
 
The trend in warfare is precision over brute force.  No longer will there be battery after battery tossing one large-caliber round after another in a sustained barrage into a grid square, hoping to take out enemy strongpoints.  It will be one and done - direct hit, next.
http://strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);" target="_blank">link
 
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