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Subject: The Real Saudi Arabia
Saudi-Soldier    7/17/2005 9:33:22 PM
I have found out that they are lots of fake information on these boards, many people watch any program about Saudi Arabia and then right away assume that its the truth and there's no way its wrong, well most are wrong! First of all, the women clothes, many people assume that Saudi women must cover from head to toe when its wrong. Saudi women cover their entire body not because of Islam, but more of the Saudi heritage and tradition. Western women think that when visiting KSA they must cover their entire body or wear a hijab, when in fact they only need to wear an Abayah, a black thin cloth worn from the shoulders till legs and does not to be closed. Then you have the rumour that Saudi men beat up their wifes, when this hardly happens, and the only popular case was the Saudi reporter awhile ago. The problem with Saudi Arabia is the government. The government has two sides, the dark and extremist side, and the bright modern side. The dark extremist side are a small group of individuals who work in different ranks in the Saudi government who publicly denounce Terrorism and privately help terrorism and works for it. The Hay'ah Alamr An AlNahy Wal Marouf, which is also well know for Muttawas, Islamic Police etc, is the biggest private group that supports Terrorism. People know this very well, but who is there to listen and do what they wish for? King Fahd is the biggest supporter of the Hay'ah, and he's the one behind all the Terrorism and local $hit happening here. The Hay'ah is a group of people who work for Allah, as policemen work for the safeness of the people, but their work is almost useless. Their main reason to work is to get rid of Christians and their ideas, but even they are began to weaken. Day by day you hardly see their GMC car moving in the streets of Riyadh. The Saudi Military is almost useless from this government, even though they spend millions, as usual they flush down the toilet. The future of Saudi Arabia is unknown, and until King Fahd moves from the throne, Americans and the rest of the World wont be able to see the Saudis in their real form.
 
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swhitebull    RE:The Real Saudi Arabia   7/17/2005 9:47:55 PM
...First of all, the women clothes, many people assume that Saudi women must cover from head to toe when its wrong. Saudi women cover their entire body not because of Islam, but more of the Saudi heritage and tradition. Western women think that when visiting KSA they must cover their entire body or wear a hijab, when in fact they only need to wear an Abayah, a black thin cloth worn from the shoulders till legs and does not to be closed... No - the real reason is because many are hairy and butt ugly, and the men need to be protected from being tempted from committing assault on them. I would be more concerned with the huge unemployment rate among native Sa'udis, the population under the age of 30, and the endemic problem of Wahhabism. swhitebull - have a nice day.
 
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Desertmole    RE:The Real Saudi Arabia   7/18/2005 6:28:37 AM
To Saudi-soldier: I find your comments most interesting. Your comments about King Fah’ad and the muttawas were especially interesting to me. I lived in Saudi for 12 and a-half years, working for a military support contract. My family eventually worked there as well, and until 2000 we found life there was fairly good. I worked with several Saudi officers who were very professional, and became very friendly with them. My wife and I had even developed a system for dealing with the muttawas, to minimize their annoyance. We also found that the Crown Prince was most pragmatic, and once he became the real power behind the throne after King Fah’ad’s stroke in 1995, the muttawas power was curtailed even more. Between the reduction in the Hay’ah’s funding, and his pressure on their organization, they were reduced almost to impotence. The alcohol war bombings of 2000-02 were undoubtedly the work of the muttawas. The idea that British ex-pats would actually be bombing each other for a part of a huge industry (the illegal alcohol trade) was silly, to say the least. It was obviously a ploy to try to regain some of their power, and the arrest, imprisonment and torture of several ex-pats was their attempt to justify an increase in their authority. By the way, what branch of the military are you in? To Swhitebull: Grow up, get a life and try joining the human race. Bigots are a low form of sub-human, and not pretty. Also, try getting out more. Try living overseas, and expanding your horizons. You are the type of fellow who gives Americans a bad name overseas.
 
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swhitebull    RE:The Real Saudi Arabia   7/18/2005 7:07:58 AM
...My wife and I had even developed a system for dealing with the muttawas, to minimize their annoyance..... Truly sad that you even HAD to do that. At least YOU are allowed into the country. I am considered an ape and a dog, and have been told I am a "zionist pig" as well. Says a lot about that wonderful kingdom, doesnt it? Geez, what would have happened if you hadnt developed a "system", and just practiced your religion openly? At least you can. ..To Swhitebull: Grow up, get a life and try joining the human race. Bigots are a low form of sub-human, and not pretty... My my my, someone is in a snit today. What did you do, forget to take your laxative, since you're full of it? Actually, I thought that someone that bend over and becomes a dhimmi is the lowest form of subhuman. Seems you are on the right path. ...Also, try getting out more. Try living overseas, and expanding your horizons. You are the type of fellow who gives Americans a bad name overseas. .. Ah, you presume a wee bit too much about me. I wouldnt do that if I were you - you reveal your own prejudices. Been overseas many times, Soviet and Middle East majors, and masters in international business and law. I get overseas - shall we say - often enough - for years. As to MY prejudices? Too bad. You dont like them, stuff it. You can be a Sa'udi lapdog if you choose to be, or, shall I say, a dhimmi. Seems you are well on your way to achieving that all by your lonesome. What to kiss a prince's thigh? Try printing something in the America that is critical of that wonderful monarchy of yours that is then bought in Britain? Better prepare for a UK libel suit designed to squash the criticism - since that is the modus operandi of various Sa'udi princes. Kind of a chilling way to suppress dissent, isnt it? Ultimate dhimmitude and obeisance. Let's just say that those wonderful princes of yours make it so expensive to criticize them that many publishers - both newsprint and books - are just self-censoring. Go figure. But that makes me a real untermenschen in your view since I dare to reveal these things. swhitebull - have a nice day.
 
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Desertmole    RE:The Real Saudi Arabia   7/20/2005 5:05:10 AM
>>Truly sad that you even HAD to do that. At least YOU are allowed into the country. I am considered an ape and a dog, and have been told I am a "zionist pig" as well. Says a lot about that wonderful kingdom, doesnt it? Geez, what would have happened if you hadnt developed a "system", and just practiced your religion openly? At least you can.<< Interesting since we had Jewish guys on our contract. Were you refused employment, or are you making an assumption. As to the other, do you carry an umbrella, wear a hat or raincoat in the rain? When in someone else’s country is it wrong to respect their culture? Would you wear your shoes into the house in Japan? >>My my my, someone is in a snit today. What did you do, forget to take your laxative, since you're full of it?<< No snit. Just felt your comment (“…the real reason is because many are hairy and butt ugly,…”) was uncalled for. I thought it was rather childish. >>Actually, I thought that someone that bend over and becomes a dhimmi is the lowest form of subhuman. Seems you are on the right path. As to MY prejudices? Too bad. You dont like them, stuff it. You can be a Sa'udi lapdog if you choose to be, or, shall I say, a dhimmi. Seems you are well on your way to achieving that all by your lonesome. What to kiss a prince's thigh? Try printing something in the America that is critical of that wonderful monarchy of yours that is then bought in Britain? Better prepare for a UK libel suit designed to squash the criticism - since that is the modus operandi of various Sa'udi princes. Kind of a chilling way to suppress dissent, isnt it? Ultimate dhimmitude and obeisance. Let's just say that those wonderful princes of yours make it so expensive to criticize them that many publishers - both newsprint and books - are just self-censoring. Go figure. But that makes me a real untermenschen in your view since I dare to reveal these things.<< Hmmm, so it was ok to insult Saudi Soldier and me, but you are upset when you are criticized. Doesn’t say much for you mate. As to me being a lapdog for the Saudis, you obviously don’t know me. I, at least, can criticize them from personal experience, and often do. I do, however, take a more pragmatic approach. We need their oil. We need their help in curbing the Wahabi excesses. Nuking them for it is not an option, so where does that leave us? You work with what you have. Better the Royal Family than giving control to Saudi oil to the likes of bin Ladin. As to their culture, it is THEIR country. What they do inside their borders is up to them, so long as they don’t try to export it to the US.
 
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Saudi-Soldier    RE:The Real Saudi Arabia   7/20/2005 8:04:47 PM
I'm not a part of the military, I'm still studying in high school in Riyadh. But I found most topics here a bit ridiculous.
 
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Pseudonym    RE:The Real Saudi Arabia   7/20/2005 11:21:14 PM
Well your maddrassas being sent around the Muslim world are training the people who are attacking and murdering Americans. How many of the highjackers on 9/11 were Saudi? How many of the 'martyrs' in Iraq are Saudi Nationals? We all know the numbers people. The problem that is responsible for murdering God knows how many people has now spread to the shores of our nations. We are not telling you how to live. We are telling you to take care of the CRIMINAL SCUM your police seem incapable of dealing with. They are so ingrained in your society you have blurred the realities of right and wrong. We have just cause to be pissed. Give us a reason not to be, stop your half assed attempt to stop Al Qaeda and shut down THEIR SUPPORT SYSTEM.
 
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giblets    Truths and actuality   7/22/2005 8:37:41 AM
Having live in the KSA, whilst it iis true that the veil is not required to be worn, the abaya must cover to the wrists and ankles. However, the muttawa will stil try and insist women cover their hair. with their little short thobes and no igal! Int erms of hte treatment of women., and expecially foreign workers, the saudi system was still in denial, on my last visit ther ( and final I beleive), there was numerous open reports in the saudi news ( the arab news et al) which gives a insight into the dealings there. One such story involved a maid who had wields around both her ankles and wrists , which had bled profusely and got gangrene, she had managed to escape her employer and go to the police station. Event he newspapers own investigation had revealed neighbours reporting screaming constantly coming from the house. The poice, being the efficient force that they are, had discovered that the cuts and lacerations, and subsequent gangrene around both her wrists and ankles were not in fact from being handcuffed and restrained to some pipes, but were in fact due to the disinfectant that she had been using. SO no charges were brought against the employer and she was sent home. This story is 100% true, aand other such stories are very common in both the English Language papers such as the arab news, Saudi Gazette and their arabic news equivalence such as Okaz http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=64122&d=22&m=5&y=2005
 
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swhitebull    RE:The Real Saudi Arabia - Gimme That Ol' Time Religion   7/22/2005 1:35:39 PM
Guess what got picked up just one week after the London bombing - nice land of religious tolerance and peace to others: http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD93905 But of course, this is just an anomaly and is just for "internal political consumption." Doesnt reflect the prevailing attitude at all, right? swhitebull
 
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swhitebull    RE:Truths and actuality   7/22/2005 1:38:37 PM
Giblets - are we more and more in agreement these days? here's more from a Saudi female journalist on the treatment of women and children in the KSA: From MEMRI.org : http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD93505 swhitebull - enlightening, isnt it?
 
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giblets    RE:The Real Saudi Arabia   7/25/2005 9:00:20 AM
Yeh not really, though I still think many of Israels actions are taken too far. But am glad to see there are now some concrete actions from both sides towards peace. Only held back by fundamentalists on boths sides.
 
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