Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
NATO Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: NATO is obsolete
Big Bad Pariah    3/15/2004 11:04:35 AM
I believe Europe should form an EU military alliance to replace NATO. NATO itself is a relic of the Cold War and does nothing but isolate Russia, Belarus, Serbia and a bunch of other non-NATO nations.
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: 1 2
Final Historian    RE:NATO is obsolete   3/15/2004 12:56:23 PM
I agree that NATO is obselete. But a EU military alliance would be foolish to the extreme. Who would be willing to pay to increase the size of their military to make up for the loss of the US in any such alliance? Answer: no one. It would be a stillborn birth. Rather I support a new, global defense organization. GDI (Global Defense Initiative), if you like. Composed entirely of democracies, based around the idea of protecting free states, promoting security and democracy, and truly global in nature.
 
Quote    Reply

Thomas    RE:NATO is obsolete   3/16/2004 2:25:58 AM
I disagree with the obsolesence of NATO. We got to realise, that the only place where there is sufficient trained manpower, reasonably modern weapons and a command structure to form a serious threat - terrorism not withstanding - is Russia (and possibly China). As political dicisiveness is more than fickle a defensive system must be in place as a preventive measure.
 
Quote    Reply

Final Historian    RE:NATO is obsolete   3/16/2004 12:13:23 PM
China is a greater threat than Russia these days. Nuclear arsenal not withstanding.
 
Quote    Reply

NewGuy    RE:NATO is obsolete   3/16/2004 12:56:06 PM
"NATO itself is a relic of the Cold War and does nothing but isolate Russia, Belarus, Serbia and a bunch of other non-NATO nations.." Is it just me, or does anyone else here think perhpas that BPP mainly objects to NATO because the US plays a leading role in it? :-) NewGuy
 
Quote    Reply

bsl    RE:NATO is obsolete   3/16/2004 3:48:10 PM
NATO is still valuable to both the West, generally, and America, specifically. It's the closest thing to a "Western" alliance as exists. As such, it's the closest thing to a Western military as exists. There are all sorts of points to make about how useful this is to the West, and to America. But, the shortest and clearest point to make is to invoke Bismark, whose genius understood how useful it was to be part of the most powerful bloc of powers around. The obvious benefit was that the protection it gave against known enemies. The subtle point was that it turned **potential** enemies into allies. Anyone with the slighest spark of consciousness who hasn't spent the last decade on another planet knows that America and Europe have been drifting apart. NATO happens to be the one institution around which binds America and Europe directly together. The EU is a specifically *European* institution, excluding America. The UN is much too large, otoh. It's no coincidence that both institutions have become centers of antiAmerican interests. And, so, the point is that beyond NATO's value as a purely military alliance, it's valuable as a *political* counter to the EU, helping represent and defend American interests *inside* Europe.
 
Quote    Reply

tank    RE:NATO is obsolete   3/16/2004 3:53:48 PM
well said !!!
 
Quote    Reply

Thomas    RE:NATO is obsolete bsl   3/17/2004 8:19:43 AM
I generally agree with You, but having recently arrived from Pluto, I'm not so sure that Europe and USA have drifted apart. I hear a lot of political yap; but I don't see any real change: In Europe there are (in almost all countries) two political blocks of importance: A conservative/liberal (please do not use the US meaning of the words) and a socialdemocratic. These blocks are approximately of equal size and votes - and the swing of the pendulum give power to each block in turn.
 
Quote    Reply

FJV    RE:NATO is obsolete bsl   3/17/2004 10:28:29 AM
And lets not forget that NATO does a lot of useful things that are not mentioned in the media. Either because you'ld only notice once it stopped or because it is not newsworthy (it's really mundane, but has to be done). For instance: Operation Active Endeavor http://www.afsouth.nato.int/operations/Endeavour/Endeavour.htm Not much newsworthy, but still usefull to monitor shipping with respect to the war on terror.
 
Quote    Reply

Thomas    RE:NATO is obsolete FJV   3/18/2004 8:27:11 AM
I quite agree. I the importance of a command structure in place should not be underestimated. Speaking of the Baltic States: Some years back, when these states had just been independent a couple of years, the Naval Home Guard (with the explicit sanction of the secretary of defence Hækkerup) had their summer cruise to the Baltic countries. The Naval Home Guard have some small cutters and are manned by unpaid volunteers from unmilitary walks of life - some of them will NOT pass a fitness test; but never mind if only they are good sailors. (An idea for the US Coast Guard ???, they are cheap and provide a lot of observation). They sail a cruise every year, to get some seatime and have a holiday and a bit of exercise. They gathered 6 cutters (like fishing boats (small)) and sailed to all the Baltic countries. The significance is that Denmark (and thus NATO) took the right to operate with a FLEET (more than 2 Naval vessels)or TASK FORCE in the Baltic region. The Russian could not challenge the temerity, as they would have looked to rediculous protesting against pot-bellied family fathersin untidy uniforms. They could not in any way be construed as a threat to Russia, but the rescue exercises underlined the right to military operations. Sometimes a couple of cutters can achieve what a Task Force cannot.
 
Quote    Reply

swami    RE:NATO is obsolete   3/22/2004 9:51:53 PM
I agree with you, but I am afraid the French are bent on stopping us and too many Europeans and Japanese are pacifist. It looks like we are going to have to do it with only half of the democracies. But I like your intentions. Truman would be proud!
 
Quote    Reply
1 2



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics