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Subject: America vs. Russia
sooner    1/30/2004 11:22:14 AM
Allies--supposedly. Who would strategically win a war?
 
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Knjaz       8/26/2008 1:39:29 PM


May I ask where you got that from ?    During the Cold War it was NATO, not Russia (SU than), which was dependant on the use of tactical nukes.   Russia always relied on material superiority and numbers, and I cant see how that changed when I review their last conflicts.  Even when they utterly failed in taking Grozny first time and adjusted their city combat capabilities, they did not change their doctrine and could go a long way before even thinking about using nukes.



They days, when SU had numerical advantage in conventional weapons are long gone, now Russia and NATO traded places.
That's one of main reasons why Russia doesn't start massive military rearmament\modernization itself and just waits when the new weapon systems will be available. (although there's enough money and possible upgrades).

Also, google for the

NTI: Issue Brief: Russia's Nuclear Doctrine

it's old, many things changed since 2004, but u may find some interesting things there about "nuclear deescalation" doctrine, which imply limited use of tactical nukes. (I myself used sources in russian) (and yes, in the brief itself search for the word "deescalation")
 
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CJH       9/13/2008 11:07:14 PM
Either the US or China or both.
 
If China had to decided who to back in such a war, who do you think it would?
 
I would say that China would conclude that it could better live with a US success than with a Russian success. I believe China sees Russia as the competitor which is too close to home to be relatively unrestrained.
 
 
 
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Radioaktivität       10/5/2008 6:10:54 AM

I believe one of the most harmful factors to Russian image on forums such as these are the presence of Russian nationalists, who do little to prepare for such arguments ahead of time.

I'm Russian and Egyptian in nationality, but I consider myself a Eurasian above all else. And, despite being very proud of my region and the countries within it, I do realize that the United States would defeat Russian Federation forces in a conventional, offensive war. Russia in a defending role against an invading United States is a much different story, however, and would result in a general stalemate, with the only clear result being a massive body count for both sides.

Returning to my original statement, Russian nationalists are overoptimistic about experimental projects. Mainly, that is the experimental project's role, to create an air of competition between themselves and modern Western designs. The fact remains that Western designs of similiar performance are actually in production state, and beyond that, being produced in considerable numbers. Russians must be realistic, and keep in mind that the majority of these projects are irrelevant to actual war, and serve a more propagandic purpose.

The current state, regardless of positive economic results in the last few years, is degenerative, unorganized, corrupt, and ridiculous. Modern Russia is flawed to it's very veins.

I believe that, the only hope for Russia, and the entire of Eurasia, is to begin a very challenging and extensive evolution. A look back at history, of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Everything that these nationalists, and pro-Russians wish to be on these forums, is what the USSR was, for the most part. International power projection, a formidable air-defense, an organized and well trained ground force and air force, a navy with massive potential for full blue-water capability, and the economic strength to power it all. Now, a US vs. Soviet (Which I know those topics exist as well) is more realistic.

Compare that to current Russia- a joke, a shadow of it's previous self. NATO and the EU sits on our doorstep, the Chinese loom above us (Even if they're geographically below, excuse the pun), and we've degenerated into fighting our previous comrades, the Georgians, Chechans, etc. That's only the military aspect of this situation. Need I compare the USSR to current Russia, politically, socially, structurally, and economically? It's a silly idea, waging war with the US, when we can barely hold ourselves together.

The past is our future, but not our past mistakes, of course. (Forgive me if I ramble here) Nationalization of most important and industrial companies is important. More efficient allocation of funds created by our massive oil revenues is a must. An entire transformation of politics, government structure, and treatment of civilians from workers, to journalists. (Yes, I realize that the USSR wasn't exactly a shining example of a human rights advocate, but as I said, let us not repeat our mistakes) An internal war on corruption, bribery, and exploitation. This is where the actions of Yuri Andropov come to mind, where he shattered the corruption within the former-Brezhnev regime. (Perhaps the greatest post-Lenin chairman beside Khrushchev.) Within the military and government, we must have organizations and departments fighting crime / corrupt actions, and then more organizations watching /those/ organizations, etc. Greater cooperation and especially greater respect towards the Commonwealth of Independent States members, and all former-Soviet or Warsaw members. This includes unconditional support, and togetherness. These states will realize that the new regime is their (Genuine) friend, much more so than the West which (In my opinion, and many anti-imperialist's opinions) is a dangerous and two-faced "friend" for East Europe to have.

In a more military aspect, I believe much of our nearly-obsolete and mothballed army of little future value should be sold off soon to the third world. We don't have the manpower to operate them, we don't have the ability to train the manpower to operate them, we don't have the ability to maintain and train with the said equipment, and so on. With only the best portion of our vast military remaining (As well, downsizing of personnel to root out anything besides voluntary soldiers), a new start is po

 
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Knjaz       10/24/2008 6:15:21 PM
Just a little more to prove my point - on russian military forums noone seriously takes the possibility of all-out conventional war with USA. They're absolutely sure (and here I'm talking about real militatary personnel) - if the big war brakes out, they'll go nuclear almost immediatly. (the talk is about massive use of tactical nukes on airbases from which russian territory will be bombed from, CBGs, invading forces etc.)
 
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afrc       10/25/2008 1:46:56 AM

Just a little more to prove my point - on russian military forums noone seriously takes the possibility of all-out conventional war with USA. They're absolutely sure (and here I'm talking about real militatary personnel) - if the big war brakes out, they'll go nuclear almost immediatly. (the talk is about massive use of tactical nukes on airbases from which russian territory will be bombed from, CBGs, invading forces etc.)
No surprise here. Russian military main deterrent is nuclear weapons. Georgian war showed that while Russia can beat up a smaller and weaker opponent, they are not ready for conventional confrontation with modern sizable military. They don't have equipment, organization, discipline, communications, etc... they have none of the things necessary to conduct a successful campaign against well-organized and equipped opponent (except maybe numbers and friendly territory). That is why Russia invests a huge portion of it's military funding into nuclear forces... and Russian military doctrine probably reflects this.
 
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person    this war   3/5/2009 2:51:34 PM
ok personally Russia would win in the current state of the world where in afganistan america and other forces are occupying
 so russia in 2006 started rebuilding its once great army so far over 600000 troops have been enlisted and are being trained it also has rebuilt its armor and air forces the t 90 tank is now king of the battle field over the abrams to counter this the americans thought and decided what good is a tank if there is a jet to knock it out so amerca claimed the air with th F-18 and it other amazing fighter jets but russia brought into service the MIG 29 a 4th generation fighter russia now has air suppiority and america wont go into a nuclear war with russia because if they do russia fires back and there is no first strike plan america would have to disband from the UN and the UN would not take kindly to this then america had the chinese and mabey even the europe
 
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afrc       3/9/2009 11:50:14 PM

ok personally Russia would win in the current state of the world where in afganistan america and other forces are occupying

 so russia in 2006 started rebuilding its once great army so far over 600000 troops have been enlisted and are being trained it also has rebuilt its armor and air forces the t 90 tank is now king of the battle field over the abrams to counter this the americans thought and decided what good is a tank if there is a jet to knock it out so amerca claimed the air with th F-18 and it other amazing fighter jets but russia brought into service the MIG 29 a 4th generation fighter russia now has air suppiority and america wont go into a nuclear war with russia because if they do russia fires back and there is no first strike plan america would have to disband from the UN and the UN would not take kindly to this then america had the chinese and mabey even the europe

Russian army's performance in Georgia was not very impressive - Georgians simply did not put up a fight and Russians won by default. Russian military suffers from years of neglect and rebuilding it is going to be slow and painful - they have corruption problems, they have to replace a lot of their outdated and crumbling equipment left from Cold War. Their procurement is very slow and a lot of the new stuff is going abroad. MIG-29 was a decent plane 20 years ago... now without modernization program most of those old planes are obsolete. F-22 is the only 5th gen plane in the world and I bet that US has more of it than Russia has their 4+ gen Su-30 planes. T-90 is a decent tank, but it is not superior to M1A2 and I don't think that Russia has more T-90's than US has M1's. And even though US is busy in the Middle East they can always pull out and shift in case of a bigger conflict... and those troops will have combat experience... and they will have better logistics, better communications, better equipment. I think you grossly overestimate the strength of the Russian military... and you think and write like a child.
 
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bartrat    Good Post Sir!   3/10/2009 1:58:57 PM
Radioaktivität your post was wonderful, good analysis. I agree with you on your analysis of Russia's defense state and possible fixes. I disagree with you about the West being a two faced friend to eastern block. 
I hope that Russia will become less paranoid of USA / West and  become even more helpful against China's growing power and terrorism. 
I see signs of this already, Russia allowing US supplies for central Asia to go on Russian railways.
 
 
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CJH       3/14/2009 2:39:35 PM

Roadcop is right, America could destroy the Russian military, but never occupy the country. And the presence of nukes would preclude any open hostilities.
I wonder what a typical historian would have said in 1900. This particularly in reference to an uprising of a small but highly organized party in the major cities of European Russia.
Could a group of revolutionaries first seize control of St. Petersburg and Moscow and parlay that position into an eventual control of the entire Russian Empire.
 
Of course an all out invasion by a foreign army would unite the Russian people behind the Russian leadership. But consider whether a more devious and well thought out campaign to overthrow the Russian government from within starting with a few key locations and groups of dedicated people might accomplish effectively the same.
 
A virus like process perhaps.
 
Just brainstorming.

 
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rybizzo       5/24/2009 6:16:58 AM
OK! lets just be honest guys! the russian militarty is in a state of decay! the united states spends more money on its militarys than the next 10 nations combined! americas air force, army, navy, and marines are the best equiped military forces in the world with the most technologically advanced weaponry in the world! there are currently 350,000,000 people living in the united states! we even out number them! not to mention our nuclear weapons which can span the glode and destroy thousands of military and industrial locations in russia crippling there ability to sustain war with us.
 
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