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Subject: Does America have to abide by the same rules as the rest of the world?
sooner    2/15/2004 9:09:07 AM
The war in Iraq. The UN said no. Everyone wanted valid proof before authorizing ware. France and Germany teamed up on the U.S. and still they went right through them on their way to Iraq. Do they have to follow the same international rules as everyone else, or do they make their own as they go?
 
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Panther    RE:Does America have to abide by the same rules as the rest of the world?   2/15/2004 6:09:47 PM
In no disrespect to your views, but, the u.n. atleast in my view, was either to corrupt or to ineffectual to reach any kind of concensus in regards to iraq! The need to do something with saddam's iraq was apparently there, as the clinton administration was well aware of. Many hardcore historians remember the league of nations apparent lack of will to stop italy's taking of ethiopia in 1936, and hitler's view of the weakness of the democracies. in that regard, picture some rogue state taking or acquiring of WMD and the lack of will to oppose them, in their bid of holding the world as a nuclear hostage. But, i fear that particular arguement is already redundant by north korea's 10/2002 annoucement, and iran's near nuclear capability. So, the need to confront or dissuade is more apparent then ever in this post 9-11 America/World. After 9-11 the shift of the current administration's isolationist foreign policy, to a more aggressive stance is one of national survival! Libya's is a case in point to my previous arguement; it's announcement of their nuclear program and desires, does make one pause and give thanks not just to american military muscle, but also to european diplomacy (hard and soft power)! A much underestimated, and less trumpeted (in the media), shared victory between america and involved european powers! I don't think most americans disregard international views, just because some think we can. We can't & we don't disregard others view of the world. But, just because some nut is holding a ed pistol at my friends and i, doesn't mean i or one of my other friends won't be plotting and scheming at somehow disarming or making them think twice at pulling the trigger! You can call it being cowboyish, i'll just call it survival! Hope my post made some sense!
 
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sooner    RE:Panther   2/16/2004 6:55:56 AM
Thanks panther. You are quite knowledgeable on the issue. I, too, am an American. It is survival!
 
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Final Historian    RE:Panther   2/16/2004 3:18:23 PM
Sooner, the thing for me is this: THe UN is no longer legitimate. In fact, it was never legitimate. But now that the Cold War is over, we have no reason to pretend otherwise. Letting despots into a democratic body was seen as stupid as far back as 1789, so as long as teh UN allows them in, it will be illigitimate.
 
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roadcop    RE:Despots in democratic body   2/17/2004 12:33:02 AM
We have the same situation here in so-called Commonwealth of Independent States. Some states (Russia, Ucraine) are democratic (at leats we have working parliament, regular free elections on all levels, free press, etc.). But there are states clearly anti-democratic. One example is Turkmenia. It is ruled by so-called "Turkmenbashi" (Father of Turkmenians) Saparmurad Niyazov. He is a real dictator (like in some movies). I even think, he is insane with power. There are his statues and portraits everywhere in Turkmenia. He builds large decorated palaces, and his people are very poor. It is usual for many people to have a monthly income of 5-10 dollars. And certainly during Soviet rule people's life was better. And there are many strange laws in this country. Imagine, if you are foreign tourist, you have to receive permission to leave country from "President" himself. And you should pay for this a considerable sum in USD. If you marry local woman and intend to leave country with her, you should pay 50000 USD fee. To think, it would be cheaper to smuggle your love from this country (along with her family, because of possible repressions). And anoter leaders of Central Asian Republics are not much better. Medieval khans with modern armor and fighter-bombers are Russian "allies". Thats really bothers me (as Russian and free-thinking). So, financial and economic interests usually prevail above democratic principles. Such things lead to Munich. May be we just should to get rid from any non-democratic regime on our planet?
 
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displacedjim    RE:Does America have to abide by the same rules as the rest of the world?   2/23/2004 5:08:47 PM
"Do[es America] have to follow the same international rules as everyone else...?" Who cares? If the UN or any part thereof doesn't like what we do, f%&k them. Displacedjim
 
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sentinel28a    RE:Does America have to abide by the same rules as the rest of the world?   2/26/2004 5:00:40 PM
We should abide by the rules. The UN's problem is that it keeps trying to change them so we can't. I find it ironic that the countries that blast the US for ignoring the UN are far more guilty of the same offense than we are.
 
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appleciderus    RE:Does America have to abide by the same rules as the rest of the world?   2/26/2004 5:51:35 PM
No.
 
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Okoshka    RE:Does America have to abide by the same rules as the rest of the world?   3/8/2004 6:36:35 AM
No. They don't have because they are the first class human and we non Americans are the second class.
 
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sentinel28a    RE:Does America have to abide by the same rules as the rest of the world?   3/8/2004 5:40:52 PM
"They don't have because they are the first class human and we non Americans are the second class" We are? Great Gaia, who's in steerage? After hearing Jessica Simpson and seeing Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction," I am prepared to cede our first-class status.
 
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Okoshka    RE:Does America have to abide by the same rules as the rest of the world?   3/9/2004 1:55:58 AM
Yes. Basicly it is a funny question. We sould laugh on it. Everyone should abide by the same rules. This is what for fighting the US for decades. But unfortunately some people from the US is serious when they ask this question. From that you are joking it seems to me you don't understand the problem. It's not a funny thing. Many people don't like Americans. Mostly not because what they do but how they do it. To me you look like some basicly friendly village folk who suppose too much about themselves. You suppose you know everything better, do everything better than the others. There is some truth. In some areas you are really better. But not in everything and the great problem is your behavior. You want urge the other countries abide by the same democratic rules? You should show an example! Not playing the big, strong and clever above the silly others. Accept the same rules and laws. And follow them. When a policeman suppose that he is above the law, that is not low and order. Some people in US are afraid in an international court US soldiers could be in danger. Some forces would press the court to make political decisions in their case.They are afraid some countries would want a revenge. But if US troops do their job according the rules and the law what should they do front of the court?
 
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